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This thread is a more abstract sequel to my Actual Play thread On immersion, fascination, and precious moments. While the term "immersion" is used with a variety of meanings, there seems to be a phenomenon that several of us have experienced in similar ways and that they refer to as "immersion". That phenomenon is what I want to tackle. Three questions form the outline of my attempt:

1) What defines it?
2) What should we call it?
3) Whence does it come?

1) What defines it? [/u]

We are talking about a state of perception. Some have gone as far as to compare it with self-hypnosis. All seem to agree that it comprises a certain, trance-like sense of removal from the world. It seems to go along with a light-headed feeling of euphoria not unlike intoxication, to varying extents. Imagination seems to play a vital part, in the sense that some aspects of the Shared Imagined Space become very immediate to the player. The player also gets the feeling that play has a momentum beyond his control.

2) What should we call it? [/u]

One option obviously is to stick with "immersion". This might be misunderstood, but then again, there are other terms in Forge parlance that might be misunderstood. Nonetheless I would opt for a new term, if a good one were to be found. "Trance" has been suggested, but I fear that this word holds just as much potential for misunderstanding as "immersion". "Sim trance", on the other hand, already contains an interpretation that should be avoided on this level.

My problem at this point is that I'm not a native speaker, so I'll leave the semantical details to others. Let's just, for this thread, assume that "immersion" is the state of perception I tried to describe under 1).

3) Whence does it come? [/u]

All seem to agree that you cannot really force immersion. There is no formula that leaves you with a real high chance of achieving it in a given game. There are, however, some interesting ideas as to what might increase or decrease the chance of immersion. Let's look at a few.

a) Flow

It has been suggested that immersion is a roleplaying kind of "flow", meaning challenge and skill blending in a state of oneness with activity and situation. The flow is a psychological idea that applies to all sort of activities that involve skill and challenge, like, for example, sports. The challenge must measure the skill, and the mind must be fully focused on the task. Note that "challenge", in this sense, is not identical to Gamist challenge.

The idea of "challenge" and "skill" might indicate that roleplayers need to touch and exceed their own limits in roleplaying in order to reach the state of immersion. This accords with my own experience. Actually, this might just be what I meant by "intensity" in my first thread, or what Mikko meant by "hard questions".

However, the idea of flow does not capture the important role imagination plays in immersion. So, even assuming that flow is involved, immersion still might require prerequisites beyond challenge measuring skill.

b) Creative Agenda

It has been suggested that immersion is unique to Simulationist play. Others, me included, recalled achieving immersion in games in which other Creative Agendas predominated. Since immersion will almost never last a whole Insctance of Play, these two perceptions do not necessarily have to contradict each other. On the other hand, the momentum of play can come from other sources than the Simulationist "world reacts" approach. A story or challenge might gain it's very own momentum and captivate the players just as much.

You might argue that Sim play is focused on the SIS itself, whereas Gam and Nar are focused on concepts beyond the SIS, so the power of imagination that seems to go along with immersion might depend on just exploring and not doing anything else beside it. Yet if your play is predominated by Nar or Gam, you could still shift the focus as you immerse, so you forget about theme or challenge for the moment and end up just exploring a given situation.

c) Stance

The idea of rigid Actor Stance and identification with the character is often present when talking about immersion. My personal experience contains several immersion scenes that were Actor Stance. On the other hand, different persons, me included, claim to have reached immersion as GMs, leading me to the conclusion that Actor Stance might increase the chance of immersion, but definitely isn't a defining feature.

d) Social Contract stuff

A relaxed atmosphere and a chance to play undisturbed for a longer while seem to be important to immersion. Also, trusting the other players and feeling safe to let go control and allow the game to take on its own momentum.

e) Fascination

I still maintain that fascination plays an important, if not vital, role in reaching immersion. This is based solely on my personal experience since the first thread didn't help me verify it. I suggest that a certain sense of wonder is part of immersion. A sense of wonder that comes from something being new and exciting.

Looking back, the great majority of my immersive games were "first times" in one way or another, meaning that I did something in those games I hadn't done before. Play a certain setting, genre or system. Explore certain aspects of the SIS. Play with certain people. Use certain Techniques or Ephemera for the first time.

Getting used to something, on the other hand, decreases the chance of immersion for me. Playing the same game and style with the same people from back ten years ago, the chance of really being fascinated and captivated by play, to an extent that I might reach immersion, are almost nile. Play still might be fun, but it's too much routine to get me euphoric.

Hi Frank,

Recently Vincent Baker offered his own definition of immersion, and how to achieve it, on his site ("anyway" on www.lumpley.com ). Some interesting discussion followed. Sadly, at the moment the site seems to be down, and I can't locate the posts. You might want to check them out (when the site comes back to live) and see how it compares to your own ideas.

I can easily agree with Vincent's definition of immersion. Immersion as Vincent defines it is something that I often experience in Narrativist games, as a player. I believe "trance" is an entirely different mental state. Both are possible in roleplaying games.

Let's hope Vincent's site resurfaces soon! I want to read the posts there before I talk more about this subject.

FOR NOW, you can read my immersion rant here.

Two things. First, it is a rant, and it drew a rant's responses. Second, Frank, you might want to give it a quick read and then declare it either in bounds or out of bounds for this thread of yours; I'd suggest that nobody respond to it here before Frank's call.

-Vincent

Thanks for the link, Vincent. I just read through your initial post, don't have time to read through all the responses right now. I think we agree an a lot of things already, like the Creative Agenda and Techniques aspects. On the other hand, your remarks focus on the character as the vehicle of immersion, whereas mine don't.

Therefore, I think we should keep the two discussions separate for now. I'd rather wait for the results of this one and then compare them to yours. Of course, you are very welcome to participate here nonetheless.

- Frank

In this thread, Paul Czege quoted from The Everlasting:

QuoteSome roleplayers find themselves in these altered states of consciousness when they roleplay a setting or character for the first time, especially with a talented Guide and others who take the experience somewhat serious.

That would be some confirmation of my fascination thesis.

Quote from: Frank TGetting used to something, on the other hand, decreases the chance of immersion for me. Playing the same game and style with the same people from back ten years ago, the chance of really being fascinated and captivated by play, to an extent that I might reach immersion, are almost nile. Play still might be fun, but it's too much routine to get me euphoric.

In my experience, there are two points of immersion.  The first, as you've pointed out, occurs when starting out with something new.  For me, it doesn't have to be a different game, just a new character or a setting with a new twist will do .  The second point that occurs is when I discover something unknown and perhaps surprising about a character, an NPC, the setting, etc. But, just as you've said, whenever the unexpected becomes mundane, immersion becomes more difficult.  

Another observation:  I find it easier to be immersed when the universe I'm exploring is something that I'm fanatic about.  Star Wars, Middle Earth, Shannara; all of these are exciting enough to me that I can play games set in these universes and still get excited enough to obtain immersion.

So, in partial answer to your third question, I would say that fascination plays a huge role.  I get the same feeling of "immersion" when reading a really well-done book.  I get excited, I forget everything in reality and my total focus is on the characters and their struggles.  I get totally sucked in.  But, I did say "really well-done book," so what you call "flow" certainly plays a part as well.  

In my opinion, the other things you've mentioned are less important.  In fact, I'd say that CA, Stance, and the SC are each a piece of the "flow."

In answer to your other two questions...  

For me, immersion is when I've become so excited about the character or characters in front of me that I forget about reality.  So, I'd define immersion to be "a near total replacement of reality, in the player's mind, with an imagined space."  Hopefully, it's neither permanent nor completely total...

As for what to call it... I think immersion works, but you could call it submersion, vicarious play, or player substitution...

Anyway, I hope a tiny bit of that was helpful, sometimes I just ramble and rant all over the page.