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Someone mentioned this as a good idea, so I figured I'd get the ball rolling. What are the real qualities of the weapons we all love and adore? I know a lot about swords and the like, especially concerning their application (as opposed to their make, carbon numbers, etc), and would like to talk about some of this stuff. I'll have a lot to say and I'll try to answer questions about my own area of knowledge, and I'll defer when clueless (or I'll give my guess but also mark it as such). The only stipulation is that it all has to tie into TROS...how would a certain quality be codified in the stats? What culture in Weyrth would use this and why? And so on...whatever fits this forum in conjuction with weapons and stuff.

Waiting for the crap to hit the fan...
Jake

Things I like(random assortment):

Leaf blades(knives or swords), in real life, used by the Moros of the Phillipines, NW American Native tribes, and a few other places.  ROS usage: The religious warriors of the east.  Real life results: nastier wounds, harsh bloodloss.  Rules: Treat all stabs as being even harder to heal, add more blood loss.

Shark tooth "clubs", real life, used by Polynesian islanders.  ROS usage: any island/coastal locale with lots of sharks and a lack of metal.  Real life results: Gruesome tissue damage, horrid infections, nasty bloodloss.  Rules: Probably counts as a club, just with wicked shock/bloodloss bonuses.  Weak vs. armor.  Also probably nasty to heal(infection, shark tooth bits,etc.)

Aztec Stone clubs, real life, Aztecs(duh!), has real nasty jagged edges.  Real life results: Stone clubs with saw edges=bad for victim.  ROS usage: hmm, any place with non-metal working folks.  Rules: Worse ATN/DTN than mace/morningstar, possibly higher damage/shock due to weight involved.

Chinese "Soft" sword, looks like a typical double edged taichi blade, but real thin blade makes it "wobbly" Real life results:  like a rapier that can cut as well, required skill to use.  ROS Usage: Eastern countries Rules: Like a rapier(maybe only Str +2 to thrust, ATN 6), but also can cut as well.

Kwan Staff(also known as the Kwan-dao), pole arm with massive blade on the end, existing pieces with 20-40 lbs as the blade alone...  Real life results: Turns horses into tripeds, popular with several variations.  ROS Usage: Eastern nations Rules: Probably has terrible DTN and a so-so ATN, but awesome damage.  

Hunting Boomerangs, 1 meter long, used to hunt kangeroos.  Real life results: breaks both legs of kangeroos, and flipped a full sized refrigerator(god I love the science channel...).  ROS usage:  Savannah type areas with herds of large grazers.  Rules: Requires significant space to throw it, but probably does a gross amount of damage(pick any horizontal plane along your body you'd like to have every bone broken...)

Jake, feel free to throw any stats my way, these are just some "out there" weapons I think are cool.

Chris

Speaking as someone who used to be fairly proficient in the use of a boomerang (Aussie is not that far away) and used to practice a lot on our familys 5 acre farm when I was younger, I confirm that they are a very very nasty weapon. Damned tricky to be very precise with (you don't throw at your target, but to the side so it'll swing in towards them) and although they do return to you if you miss (sometimes, that's hard too) it's actually tricky to catch them, and if you miss the catch you get it heavily in the guts (with less force than the target would get it, but pretty hard).

That said, I used to practice with sticks pushed into the ground as targets, and a real peach of a shot would smash right through a 3 inch thick piece of hard wood as if it were tindling. I would hate to see the result of hitting  a person, particularly the neck or head.

Hmm... some weapons I'd love to see rules for....

If you're going to do a boomerang - which I'd like to see also - you might make similar rules for a bola. This probably could be covered by the thrown weapon/object rules though...

Another "weapon" you see in a lot of fantasy stuff is the whip... Popular with the villans, of course. The "Cat 'o Nine Tails" could be a nasty sort of flail too.

That's all I can think of right off. I'm not so useful as to add any suggestions for rules for them though.  Anyone have suggestions?

Brandon

Hey,

A stick. 'Bout two feet long, solid stock. Also called a nightstick, a baton, or many other names.

You can mess someone up really, really badly with one of these, with even a modicum of familiarity. Given some specialized training, even someone in protective gear/armor is in trouble, as the stick is handy for tripping and similar things.

Best,
Ron

QuoteAnother "weapon" you see in a lot of fantasy stuff is the whip... Popular with the villans, of course. The "Cat 'o Nine Tails" could be a nasty sort of flail too.

I've spent some time with a bull whip, but one thing that strikes me about both the bullwhip and the cat o' nice tails is that neither is going to have much damage at all, and will probably even cap out at a level 2 or 3...but the shock (and pain?) values are likely to be considerable. I wouldn't consider either one a viable weapon in any kind of life-or-death situation...rather something good for keeping an opponent at bay when you've got room to move around in (in the case of a whip), or for making someone talk (as with the cat o nine).

My initial proposition, then, is:
(Bull)whip
Range: long/very long (depending on build)
ATN: 7 or 8?
DTN: 10 or 12?
Dam: ST -3b (or cutting?)
Notes: Doubles (Triples?) Shock modifiers before WP is subtracted. Pain is normal. No bonuses against armor of any kind.

Cat o' Nine Tails
R: Short or Medium
ATN: 6
DTN: 7 or 8
Dam: ST-3c
Notes: Doubles (Triples?) Shock modifiers before WP is subtracted. Doubles Pain modifiers before WP is subtracted. BL +1. No bonuses against armor of any kind.

Anyway, just a stab at it. Comments? Thoughts?

Jake

QuoteA stick. 'Bout two feet long, solid stock. Also called a nightstick, a baton, or many other names.

That's the club on p. 254. The only guys with ogre clubs are, well, ogres.

Jake

Hey,

Oh, I know it's there, Jake. The ROS rules for club (and for that matter, the quarterstaff) suit me just fine. I'm merely soundin' off about a weapon that in most RPGs is worth diddly-squat, but that I personally consider to be truly dangerous, especially in everyday, non-battlefield life.

Best,
Ron

Quote from: Ron EdwardsHey,

Oh, I know it's there, Jake. The ROS rules for club (and for that matter, the quarterstaff) suit me just fine. I'm merely soundin' off about a weapon that in most RPGs is worth diddly-squat, but that I personally consider to be truly dangerous, especially in everyday, non-battlefield life.

Best,
Ron

Well said.

The staff rules are pretty good but lets not forget "half staffing" afaik this was mainly a sport style (hands were too vulnerable) but it is pretty well known as a style and has its uses.

Also  another dangerous weapon that could use a bit of coverage are nunchaku.

They are really hard to use but once mastered, they hit  hard.
In addition there a number of nasty "nutcracker" joint lock moves and choke holds used with these things.

OTOH a weapon that gets "mad props" in RPG's but is mainly useless IRL is the shuriken. It does very little real damage to anyone unless you hit an eye or throat .

Its mainly a distraction or for the foolhardy ninja types a poison payload delivery system.

Oh and can I second Rattleheads request for bolas? They aren't exactly period weapons but they are fun.

I gotta chime in and second Ron on the value of a good stick.  I'm also glad to see quarterstaves got their props as valid "oops, was that your leg?, sooo sorry..." devices.  Haven't got a chance to see knives in play yet, but I'm sure they also live up to their potential.

Chris

Bolas, huh? Anyone here worked with Bolas enough to guestimate stats?

Jake

Speaking of quarterstaves, we found something in play last week that you might like, Jake: traditionally, quarterstaves were often used to trip others in combat. The "Hook" manuever has excellent mechanics for this, but represents a hooking motion with an axe or polearm. We made a new manuever, Trip, that uses the same mechanics, except you must swing at the legs, and is applicable to any handled weapon with a long reach (quarterstaves, polearms, etc.) and the result is that your opponent is thrown to the ground.

I like it! I'll have to start using it, too.

How's play going, btw?

Jake

You can check out the thread under Actual Play, "Free Artis".

Small real world weapon note of interest:
The funky red furry tufts on Chinese spears was designed to stop blood from running down the handle and making it slippery.  The crazy ribbons and cloths tied to the bottom of the handles of swords and knives makes them fly better when thrown. :P

Also, when are we going to get rules for limb breaks with grapples?  I'm sure the fine art of grappling still has the old Imperial lineages and masters around(The Riddle of Locks?).

Chris

Funny, I heard another reason for the tassles and red ribbons...makes you wonder...

As for locks and breaks, see "grappling to trap" at the end of the Defensive maneuvers section. While it gives rules for punching and kicking from a trapped grapple, limb-breaking is actually very easy to do and is a mainstay of WMA grappling...so I just use the damage for a punch or kick, applied to the swinging/bludgeoning damage tables, with all the bonuses inferred in the Grapple to Trap section. That is how it was intended.

Jake