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Sorry to trouble, but . . . where in the rule book is the list or paragraph which explains which stats to use with which humanity checks for each of the different parts of demon rituals (Contact, summon, bind, etc.)?  All I can find is the "Sorcerous Rituals In Action" section on page 90.  

I'd like to get this nailed down so I can add it to the chart in the back book and be done with it.

Thanks,

-- Eric

On 131 there is a solid sorcery reference chart listing the rolled scores.  Don't know if this covers it.

Bailywolf --

No, that is the same as the chart on 86, which shows you what to roll vs. what to accomplish the rituals, but it doesn't tell you what to roll vs. what for the humanity checks.  It also doesn't tell you if all of the various rituals require humanity checks or just some.

If I can get the humanity components figured out, I'm going to add them to that chart by hand.

Ah, gotcha.  Good question actualy... hmmm... outside of the sorcery ritual context, I suppose it could just be circumstance specific.  You cruely kick your dog when your plans fail- 1-3 dice depending on how much you loved the dog.  You cruely beat your pregnant girlfirend until she miscaries... quite a few more dice (even if she were in fact possessed by the spawn of your own parasite demon which was controling her actions...  You are still cruely beating your girlfriend... its these situations which make humanity checks real teeth-grinders).

As for sorcery... as I understood it, you are only required to make a check during Binding- your Humanity vs the demon's Power.  I can imagine situations when your descriptive rituals are so gnarly that in addition to earning you three bonus dice to your sorcery roll, they demand a Humanity check because of the extrimity... ritually performing improv surgery on a  subject with broken glass and rusty nails wich nothing but a shot of Mad Dog for the pain... roll that humanity boy (even if the subject thanks you later for his groovy new Parasite which lets him sprout broken glass tallons through his skin or which underlies his skin with scrap iron armor).

But then I'm not the best one to answer this however, as I tend to just wing any rule I can't immediatly find in the book.

Hello,

Whoa, I don't have the book in front of me, but:

1) When a character receives a Humanity check because he or she is conducting a sorcerous ritual, the Humanity roll is opposed by rolling the Power of the demon involved.

2) The rituals that include a Humanity roll are Contact, Summon, and Bind. (This should be in the text describing these rituals, as I recall. It's definitely in the Kavita example.)

The rituals Contain, Punish, and Banish do not incur a Humanity check automatically; the latter potentially includes a Humanity gain roll.

3) When making a Humanity check for any other reason, ie violating the standards of Humanity for that group/game, then Humanity is opposed by itself (ie a 50% chance).

Best,
Ron

Bailywolf and Ron:

Thanks.

Here is what I found in the rule book.  I dug this out before I saw Ron's post, so I'll go ahead and put it up:

On page 90, Kavita's rituals go like this:
Contact = humanity vs. demon power
Summons = humanity vs. humanity and then a second humanity check for sacrificing the animal.  The text doesn't say what the second humanity roll is against.
Binding = text says she must take a humanity check, but doesn't say what to roll against.

On page 87 the description of banishing says the character gets a humanity check if the banish is successful, humanity vs. power.

If there is any reference to Punishing or containing needing humanity checks, I can't find it.

So in Summoning, is the humanity check humanity vs humanity or humanity vs. power?
The check for the sacrifice is humanity vs. humanity?

Hi there,

I'm certain the book is clearer than that ... again, let me get to it over the weekend.

But here's the rules:

For the Contacting, Summoning, and Binding, the Humanity checks are all against the demon's Power.

For the sacrifice, the Humanity check is against itself.

Containing, Banishing, and Punishing do not incur Humanity checks.

Banishing includes a Humanity gain roll only under very special conditions (which are listed in the book and I'm hesitant to verbalize from memory; the point is that piddly li'l demons aren't going to be enough).

Best,
Ron

Ron --

Thanks for laying it out.  

When you find it in the book, please post where.  I feel a little dumb for not being able to find it.