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It's notable that even people who've embraced D20 recognize D&D fantasy as its own distinct form of fantasy. Check this out:

http://www.montecook.com/lineos.html

Jump down to the "C'mon! Give me something!" part.

From that particular article:

"I didn't want to make a class that was just like, say, a rogue, with a few different abilities. Or a race that's just like dwarves with a different name. What's the point of that?"

This, right here, is the very hurdle that Mr. Cook has to overcome.  And he's set an incredibly high bar for himself.  D&D Fantasy is so heavily ingrained into the collective imagination of most gamers that it will be very hard not to look at his races/classes and go "oh that's just, X in D&D".

I personally refer to this as the Talislanta Syndrome after the game of the same name that would boldly proclaim in it's advertisements NO ELVES! but which had dozens of PC races that were all elf-like or some derivative thereof.

I'm not saying he can't do it (and I'm very interested in seeing his final result).  But it's a big leap.

later
Tom

Quote from: bluegargantuaThis, right here, is the very hurdle that Mr. Cook has to overcome.  And he's set an incredibly high bar for himself.  D&D Fantasy is so heavily ingrained into the collective imagination of most gamers that it will be very hard not to look at his races/classes and go "oh that's just, X in D&D".

Hi, Tom

This may be a hurdle, but I think it's one not quite in the way you think. D&D, drawing from so many different sources, is a mishmash of all the various styles, troupes, whatever of fantasy. Therefore, finding something that is not "oh that's just X in D&D" is all but impossible because D&D has and X for nearly every element you can think of.

I think that comparing things to D&D is going to leave one disappointed. It isn't the elements, but how they're used that will make the difference.

QuoteI think that comparing things to D&D is going to leave one disappointed. It isn't the elements, but how they're used that will make the difference.

Right. I think the trick Cook is going to have to peform to actually be impressive is to focus on one of the elements of "D&D fantasy" and hone in on and enhance that. Kinda like "Xcrawl" hones in on and enhances on the dungeon crawling aspect of things.