The Forge Archives

Since my last attempt at posting the initial steps of designing my own rpg was in violation of the rules for this forum, I went back to the drawing board and tried to use my inspiration and take off from it.  I'm still borrowing heavily from the source material, but I've put my own spin on things and incorporated some things that were not in the source material.  I'll repost what I have for now.  They'll be in the follow-up posts in this thread.

Premise: The characters portray the inhabitants of Kathanaksaya, a realm where human stories and dreams come to life.
Notes:

1.  Story Points represent the power characters have over the telling of their own stories.
2.  Specialties are the states of mind, dreams, desires, and aspirations that make the character what it is.
3.  Players bid Story Points to dictate the outcome of situations.
4.  Each bid must be accompanied by a narration of what the bid represents (ie, how the conflict plays itself out).
5.  Specialties can determine the minimum bid an opponent must make to influence the story in a situation related to the Specialty.
6.  Story Points are determined at character generation but increase through experience and tests of character.
7.  Story Points are earned by the number and nature of details the human creates for the character.
8.  

Kathanaksaya can be used in conjuction with other systems, but it works best in the Kathanaksaya setting.[/list:u]

KATHANAKSAYA
Kathanaksaya is a place where stories live.  Stories are the lifeblood of Kathanaksaya.  The world thrives on the stories people tell to themselves and other people.  As stories grow, Kathanaksaya  grows rich and diverse, full of possibilities as the stories weave into one another and beget more stories.  Every part and every creature of Kathanaksaya is a story.  There are stories that explain, stories that comfort, stories that scare, stories that amaze.  Kathanaksaya contains every story ever told, no matter how grand or small.  Some parts of it would remind you of the stories familiar to you, stories you are told as a child and stories you read as you grow up.  Some of them are as exotic and alien as you could imagine, while others are so mundane you would think you were at home.  In Kathanaksaya, you create the stories that make Kathanaksaya  what it is.  Yet, as you will find out, stories have a way of taking lives of their own.  So, why are you still sitting there?  Your story awaits you.

The World of Kathanaksaya
Now that you understand what Kathanaksaya  is, you can more easily understand how Kathanaksaya works.  Kathanaksaya, in addition to being a stage upon which human stories unravel, acts as a prism and filter for these stories.  It strips down artifice and deceptive imagery and concentrates the many layers of the story.  It becomes the story in its purest form.  The lands and creatures don't simply exist; they inspire.  

Kathanaksaya is itself a story.  Sometimes, as in the case of famous artists and thinkers, some of Kathanaksaya's realms are deliberately created.  Kathanaksaya's landscapes are not like anything you can point out on a map.  Unlike our world, Kathanaksaya  has no identifiable border.  After all, what boundaries are there to imagination?  What sorts of stories have never been told?  Therefore, Kathanaksaya's topography is extremely fluid, shifting around as stories demand a place be here or there, a journey long or short.  Landscapes move as though they have minds of their own.  Whether this indicates the land itself is sentient is open for debate, but it is certain that is it alive.

Even time flows differently in Kathanaksaya.  While time does pass, how it flows depends on the story.  The general trend tends to be that where stories intersect, they share the same perception of time.  However, it would be foolish to think this is always the case.  There has been many a questing hero who fell asleep in one place and woke up one hundred years later.

Despite the mutable nature of Kathanaksaya's topography, there are some realms that embody particular story concepts.  Creatures and realms tend to share a connection with one another that originate in the stories that made them.  The most well-known of these realms are Faerie, the Land of Night, and Microworld.

Faerie is the realm where fables and fairy tales come to vibrant life.  Summer and winter are the days and nights here, with spring and autumn being dawn and dusk.  Faerie is home to many wonders.  Especially intriguing to those who travel the land are the Three Forests.  One is of purest silver, the other of gold, and one of diamonds.  The peoples are equally awe-inspiring.  Wise and mighty kings, regal queens, beautiful princesses, and dashing princes take residence in this vast realm.  There are also fairy godmothers and talking animals, and majestic castles.  Here, enchantment and magic are par for the course, but the greatest power is a pure heart.  Lest we forget, this is not just a land of "happily ever after." Foul trolls and ogres dine on the flesh of the helpless.  Cunning wolves lurk in the forests and lure young girls off the narrow path.  Wicked stepmothers plot reptilian ways to be rid of their stepdaughters.  Child-eating crones await the unwary young boy or girl.

Not too far from Faerie (or very far, depending on what story is being told), there is the Land of Night.  The sun never shines in the Land of Night.  All is black save the haunting moonlight.  Tangled forests choke the meager light given by the moon.  Vast subterranean tunnels and caverns are the homes of its denizens.  Creatures that dwell in darkness make their homes in the Land of Night.  Werewolves, vampires, ghosts, and monsters of human nightmares live there.  It is full of things that slime, slither, creep, and crawl.  The Land of Night is known as a den of savagery.  Nobody with half a brain intentionally ventures there.  Occasionally, there is a hero from another realm who seeks to test his mettle in the darkness of the Land of Night, but most of them do not return.  The power of humankind's darkest stories proves overwhelming for them.

Microworld is a realm of the small.  The land itself is barely a few square miles in size, but it is the home of a number of creatures too vast to comprehend.  To the big people who look down on it, Microworld is barely visible.  Only the tiny buildings and tilled lands of its peoples indicate that anything resembling a civilization is there at all.  Many times, big people mistake the minuscule landscapes for models, only to be shocked when a bunch of people run out of them screaming.  Because of this, most Microworld inhabitants view larger creatures as monsters to be tamed or destroyed.  A few brave Microworld souls use their relationships with the "big people" as a weapon against their Microworld enemies.  When denizens of Microworld venture into other lands, they usually fly on a butterfly, hummingbird, or hornet.

The other inhabitants of Kathanaksaya  are so diverse and numerous it would be pointless to name them all.  Even in these well-known regions, this statement holds true.  Some Kathanaksaya are big and strong, like the giants.  Some are small and quick like will-o'-wisps.  Others resemble human beings.  There are sentient rocks, animate plants, beings composed of nothing but air and thought.  The list goes on and on.  If a human can imagine it and create a story for it, there is such a creature in Kathanaksaya.  It does not matter how detailed, how creative, or how involved with the story the human is.  You know those fibs you tell from time to time to avoid the displeasure of those who hear them?  Those stories exist in Kathanaksaya  .
         
Yet, one trait that all Kathanaksaya's residents share is this.  No matter how skillful or how powerful they are, no being in Kathanaksaya can create stories.  Not even something as simple as, "Once upon a time there lived a girl.  She died."  For the craft of making and telling stories is the gift of humankind alone.  The most that any creature of Kathanaksaya can do is to live out the stories humans create for them.

Humans
Humans are responsible for Kathanaksaya's continued existence.  After all, Kathanaksaya is a world composed of their dreams, their hopes, their fears.  Human stories alter, create, or destroy Kathanaksaya  as easily as a child with a lump of clay.  Paradoxically, humans are the banes and saviors of Kathanaksaya.  When they tap into their gift for making stories, Kathanaksaya blossoms.  When they forget this gift or deny its power, the Kathanaksaya  wastes away.  Just as their ignorance of the power of stories destroys Kathanaksaya, so to does a human revive it by creating more stories.  

There have been no indisputable cases of humans physically venturing to Kathanaksaya.  It seems there is a border preventing the denizens of one world from crossing over into the other.  Perhaps this is a good thing.  The devastation that a human being's power fantasy could wield in our world is unimaginable.  Likewise, a human being who finds herself in Kathanaksaya could wreak havoc on an epic scale.

Fading
Perhaps the most feared thing in all of Kathanaksaya is the Fading.  The Fading is a process, sometimes slow, sometimes fast, that devours the creatures and lands of Kathanaksaya.  It can strike at any place and at any time.  It is sometimes acts simultaneously upon several creatures and places.  Nothing is invulnerable to it.  Even the greatest stories ever told have succumbed to the Fading.  Entire regions in Kathanaksaya  have vanished without a trace.  Though most inhabitants of Kathanaksaya have no personal experience with the Fading, most of them have heard of it and fear it for what it does.  The Fading shows itself most drastically in what it does to the sentient creatures of Kathanaksaya  .  

The Fading begins subtly.  The creature forgets details about its past.  It begins with things the creature wants to forget.  Then it starts on things that never really mattered anyway.  After that, the creature starts to realize something is wrong when it forgets important details such as its home, what happened to it fifteen minutes ago, and even its name.  When the creature forgets how to think "I am,"it vanishes.  Finally, it seems as though Kathanaksaya itself forgets the one that the Fading overtook.  The possessions of the missing Kathanaksayan vanish as though they had never been there.  Soon afterward, those who had known it lose all memory that it even existed.

What happens to Kathanaksayan after the Fading consumes them is unknown.  Most fear that it is oblivion, but others posit that it is merely a transition into another state of being.  Some believe the process is natural and inevitable.  Some Kathanaksayans, rather than try to figure out what lies beyond the Fading, attempt to understand what it really is and how it works.  Is it active or passive?  A dangerous combination of both?  A few insane (or very wise) creatures think that the Fading is what happens when the one who made them forgets about them, when someone considers them so unimportant that they are not worth considering.

Playing Kathanaksaya

All you need are a sheet of paper, a pen or pencil, and your fertile imagination.  In Kathanaksaya, you assume the role of a character who inhabits the realm of Kathanaksaya.  You are the embodiment of human dreams and hopes.  Then again, you could be the stuff of nightmares, bringing fear and malice wherever you go.  It is all up to the story.  

To work well, Kathanaksaya requires at least two humans dedicated to creating a story.  One or more humans each creates a character, a native of Kathanaksaya, who becomes the focus of the story.  This character responds to the world around them according to the natures their human creators endow them with.  While they cannot directly change the reality of Kathanaksaya with their wishes as humans can, they are able to react to their experiences and take on a life of their own, thus creating a story.  Indeed, the focus of Kathanaksaya lies in the Kathanaksayans' trials, victories, and defeats as they live out the stories initiated by mankind.  Orchestrating the stories of the Kathanaksayans is a human who elaborates how Kathanaksaya composes itself to assist in creating the story of the characters the other humans created.  He or she presents the player characters with the world of Kathanaksaya, using the imagination which is humankind's birthright to endow each story with meaning and purpose.

Character Creation
Since the inhabitants of Kathanaksaya  gain power through human imagination, it almost goes without saying that the more humans think about them and the more humans develop them, the more powerful they become.  Power in Kathanaksaya is not measured by magic, politics, or skill at arms, but by the power each being has over the story that created them.  What matters is not that these traits are a part of them, but the hopes and dreams these traits fulfill.

Creating a Kathanaksayan is a simple affair.  Kathanaksaya has scant mechanics that are meant to facilitate the plot of the story as opposed to slowing things down with rules disputes.  The most important attribute to remember when creating a story for Kathanaksaya is Story Points.  Story Points measure the potency of the stories that create the lands and creatures of Kathanaksaya.  All stories are not equally powerful.  Some are as fleeting as daydreams.  Others endure as timeless tales passed on through generations.  Have you ever heard of a story that takes a life of its own, where the actions and thoughts of the character influence where it goes?  This is what Story Points represent.

The power of different places and beings depends on many factors, but these can be scaled down to three things: the inspiration a story gives to others, the empathy a human feels for his or her creation, and the number of humans believing in or responding to the same story.  Even things which are not normally understood to be sentient have their stories to tell, and the power of the dreams which created these things dictates how its story unfolds.  Story Points, in a sense, represents a Kathanaksayan's influence over the events of its story.  Powerful Kathanaksayans are endowed with more volition.  They are able to choose the path of their stories more easily than those without much power.  It is rumored that some stories have become so potent that they no longer follow predetermined pathways, but exist completely on their own will and choose to remain in Kathanaksaya because it suits them.

To determine how many Story Points a Kathanaksaya begins with, the human creating it must answer some questions.  The more fully developed and detailed the character, the more powerful it becomes, and the more Story Points it has.  As you will see, who your character is is much more important that what your character can do.

Detailing one of these elements-quirks, skills, or abilities-gives it 1 Story Point per element you detail.  Naming and describing your character's appearance provide a window through which the world may interact with it.  These give 2 Story Points apiece.  A Kathanaksayan's habitat, daily activities, and personality decide how they react to the world around them and dictate, to some extent, how they will go about living their stories.  These garner 3 Story Points for each element detailed.  Deciding on a Kathanaksayan's life until the point the story begins does a great deal to make it more real.  A sense of history gives Kathanaksaya  a place from which to understand the world and find their place in the greater scheme of things.  Giving details about its major life events, its friends and allies and enemies, and its culture gives 4 Story Points for each element details.  Finally, a Kathanaksayan's goals, vulnerabilities, and flaws add the conflict that makes its story relevant and interesting.  The propel it to act and react to the world even when not personally inclined to do so.  These earn 5 Story Points.

If you create and detail all these things about your character, you can begin with up to 40 or more Story Points, which allows your character to influence its story more than those who are not so well-defined.

Now, you may distribute the Story Points amongst one or more specialties.  Specialties represent the particular desires, fears, and states of mind that bring Kathanaksaya to life.  Thus, they have great influence over how Kathanaksaya's creatures look and act.  Creatures of fear and malice look and act differently from beings of might, majesty, and joy.  Kathanaksaya may begin with as many Specialties as it has in Story Points.  However, the norm is to distribute them amongst a few Specialties which are the defining characteristics of each character.  Below is a list of sample Specialties.  Humans are encouraged to add more, within reason, of course.

Beauty, Craft, Death, Desire, Despair, Fear, Freedom, Greed, Health, Hope, Hunger, Humor, Innocence, Joy, Love, Luck, Lust, Madness, Majesty, Malice, Mercy, Might, Pain, Peace, Reason, Sorrow, Ugliness, Wealth, Wisdom, Youth[/list:u]

Playing by the Rules

Story Points
For the most part, the stories of the characters humans create for Kathanaksaya run smoothly.  They think, act, and react to the events of their stories.  However, in some cases, a conflict emerges that determines the course the story will take.  In these cases, it is the characters' will, destiny, and power which decide the outcome.  

Kathanaksaya uses a bidding system with Story Points.  The human wishing to initiate a significant change in the story starts by bidding a number of Story Points.  Those who oppose the change may opt to raise the bid by at least one or accept the bid.  Whichever human wins the bid must pay the winning bid in Story Points, and whatever change he or she initiated or opposed takes place.  It is possible for multiple humans to collaborate in a bid, and the totals are cumulative for all parties involved.  The key, however, is to do this in a dramatically interesting way by incorporating actions in each bid.

NO
Human 1: I kill the werewolf.  I bid 3 points.
Human 2: Like hell. 4.

YES
Human 1: The werewolf swipes at your belly with its powerful claws, hoping to gut you like a fish.  3 points.
Human 2:  I leap back just in time, avoiding the blow.  4 points.
Human 1: The werewolf bites you on the arm.  7 points.
Human 2: Aaaargh!  I pry the werewolf's jaws from my arm.  10 points.
Human 1:  The werewolf leaps back and springs on you, pinning you down as it attempts to maul you.  11 points.
Human 3:  I toss Allin the silver dagger the gnome gave me.  5 points to add to his 10.
Human 2:  I grab the silver dagger and plunge it into the werewolf's side.
Human 1: The werewolf howls in agony and slumps down on you.  The blood is wet and sticky on your hand.  It doesn't move.[/list:u]

Specialties play an important part in bids when particular events involve them.  It is easier for a Kathanaksayan to influence a story that resonates with the dreams that spawned it.  In this case, you add the score for the Specialty to the number of Story Points you bid.  For instance, say that a giant with the specialty of Might rated at 4 and has 8 Story Points wanted to push open a colossal stone gate.  The gate's Story Point total is 12.  If the giant wished to force the gate open, he could spend one Story Point and open the bid at 5 (one Dream Point + Might Specialty at 4 = 5).  If you used your Specialty to bid, and you win, you only expend Story Points bid in excess of your Specialty rating.  Of course, you do not always have to use the maximum rating of a Specialty to start a bid associated with it; you could bid under the Specialty rating if you so desire.  This is a great tactic for humans whose characters are more powerful than they would care to admit.

When you run out of Story Points, you no longer have any control over what happens to your character.  It is completely left to the vagaries of fate and has no means to resist whatever harm or change comes to him.

Gaining Story Points
Only living through and inspiring stories make creatures of Kathanaksaya more powerful.  This is done by fulfilling the dreams and wishes that create them in a manner that is interesting and relevant.  There is no easy way to determine how this comes about.  A simple way to do this is to examine how they face and deal with the trials that face them in the course of their stories.  The power they gain is determined by the scale of the challenge and the power of the dreams inspiring the character.  Equal or overwhelming odds against your character says more about its power than a series of small victories.  

Not that small victories are unimportant.  Indeed, the culmination of many small choices frequently influences how a character's story manifests.  The characters the humans create in Kathanaksaya are not always static.  Consider the hero who begins as a warrior of might and virtue.  As the story progresses, it becomes clear that he uses his strength, power, and charisma to browbeat others into submission.  So, in addition to being a hero of Might and Majesty, as the story unfolds, it becomes clear he is also a man who inspires Fear.  

In addition to gradual changes, there are times in the course of a story that a character has a moment of truth that reveals his true nature and seals his fate.  These usually come about in periods of great change in an individual's life.  Birth, death, marriage, aging, and all sorts of things that would qualify as landmark moments in life account for these changes.  Times such as these also gain a Story Point, but a successful test of character may warrant an additional Story Point.  Specialties work along the same lines.

Sample Character
The character I'm going to create is a simple creature.  He is a unicorn named Dobie.  He is gleaming white, and from a distance he resembles a horse with a long, riveted horn jutting from the center of his forehead.  On closer inspection, though, it is clear he is more goat-like.  His tail is long and tufted, and he has a silky mane and beard.  His eyes are blue.  Dobie lived in the secluded peaks of the Silver Mountains, high above the places most people of Kathanaksaya were unwilling to go.  Day after day, he feasted on the dewy grass, leaves, and moss of his home.  From time to time, he'd venture into the woodlands of the valley for a change of scene.  However, when he heard the footsteps of people, he retreated into the lofty peaks.  For centuries, many came to hunt him, wanting the prize of his horn (which has great healing and purifying powers), but none were sure-footed or agile enough to conquer the jagged Silver Mountains.  Most fell to their doom, their screams echoing into the valley below.  Dobie distrusts most people, for he finds them greedy and disrespectful.  Yet, he is drawn to innocence.  He only allows himself to be seen by a maiden or a child, and he occasionally allows himself to be petted by them, as they do not seek to kill him for what they hope to gain from him.  Fortunately, most of them forget the incident and grow up into unusually healthy young men and women.  Only one, Sarah, remembers, and only she has not grown greedy and cold with the years.  She treats him as she would an old friend, sharing treats with him, and talking with him about her life.  Dobie relishes these moments, and little by little falls in love with her.  A part of him wishes to be a man so he may love her in the proper way, but he does not know how, so he only hopes.  Dobie only wants the peace of the forest, and the company of his beloved Sarah.

Dobie's appearance and name give him 2 points apiece, so that's 4 points.  Dobie's personality, habitat, and daily routine give 3 points a piece; that's 9 points for that.  Altogether, Dobie now has 13 Dream Points.  Dobie's horn, which has great healing powers, gives him 1 point.  Dobie only gets 4 points for his background, as only his relationship with Sarah is given any detail.  However, his distrust of people and his inability to resist innocence give him potent flaws, and he gets 5 Dream Points apiece for those.  This totals 24 Dream Points.  His fervent desire to become a man for Sarah is enough to give him 5 more Dream Points, bringing the total to 29.

I'm going to give Dobie the Specialties Health, Innocence, Majesty, Might, and Peace.  Might and Majesty are least important, so they only get a rating of 5.  The other three Specialties are equally important to this character, so they are all at a rating of 6.  Since Dobie's healing properties are so valuable, I'll add another point to Health, increasing the rating to 7.  Thus, when I want Dobie's Might or Majesty to influence how his story unfolds, I open a bid at 6 due to these Specialties.  If Innocence or Peace can influence the story, he starts the bid at 5.  Finally, if the power of Healing comes into play, he opens a bid at 8.  Given the time it took for me to make him (10 minutes), that's not bad.

Woo hoo, another Chinese speaker!  Can't get enough of them.  Welcome to the Forge, by the way.

So, which "Xiang" is it?  Is Xiang Guo the "fragrant lands," the "enjoyable lands," or the "elephant lands"?

I'll comment on your system in a bit, but I have to go take a Greek exam in 4 hours, and I HATE languages that conjugate.  Suoyou de yuyan yinggai xiang zhongwen na me jiandan.

I'm using xiang(3) meaning "to think, to want."

Man, did Greek totally destroy me.  Anyway...

Quote from: GreenI'm using xiang(3) meaning "to think, to want."

Ah, I was wondering if you were using that one.  But that combination, AFIK, means "homesick for your native land."  So, you could ask a Chinese person living abroad "Ni xiang guo ma?" and it would mean "Do you miss China?"  At least, that's what comes to my mind when I think of "xiang guo."  Is there any real reason you're deciding to go with a Chinese title?  There doesn't seem to be anything in the setting that specifically calls for it.

Your system looks kinda like Universalis, but requiring a GM (at least as far as I can tell; you didn't mention if the system is GM-less or not).  I like it, because, as it's set up, you can easily share characters or have more than one character assigned to a particular player.  A few thoughts:

-- allow players to bid their Specialities without having to spend any Story Points at all.  As you have it now, it seems 1 SP must be spent on every action, in order to make it happen, but this would seem to eat up SPs really quickly.  But if, as in Nobilis, the Specialty rank represents what the character can do WITHOUT Story Points, resolution of non-controversial issues (which no one wanted to challange) would go faster.

-- what happens in conflicts that go beyond character vs. character?  For instance, if someone is climbing a wall, who bids the SP to challange them?  It wouldn't seem to make sense for another character to try to resist their success, unless you mean for there to be elements of player-player antagonism.

-- the game concepts remind me a bit of the Ethereals from In Nomine, who live in the dreamworld and feed on human beliefs & worship.  The Ethereal Player's Guide is supposed to finally come out in February, and you might want to take a look at it.  Much of it is written by R. Sean Borgstrom, who wrote Nobilis.

In any case, I'll be interested to see where you go with this.  It's a really cool concept and a neat system behind it.

Later.
Jonathan

QuoteIs there any real reason you're deciding to go with a Chinese title?  There doesn't seem to be anything in the setting that specifically calls for it.

Other than aesthetics, no.  I generally don't think language should be a limiting factor in the attitude of believing that one should only use words of other languages if the setting is dominated by the culture creating it.  Variants from Latin and English were generally too bland or already taken.  Also, I think that going into a different linguistic system sort of helps establish the universal nature of the game.  It is not a game just about European (or better yet: American or English) stories.  I may switch to another term, perhaps even one of the African languages, if I find it suits the game better.  In fact, an African term would be ideal, as it would seem fitting that the birthplace of modern humanity would also be the birthplace of human stories.

QuoteYour system looks kinda like Universalis, but requiring a GM (at least as far as I can tell; you didn't mention if the system is GM-less or not).  I like it, because, as it's set up, you can easily share characters or have more than one character assigned to a particular player.

Thanks.  I'll be sure to keep this.  I didn't directly answer your question, if you mean I will say, "There are players and GMs," but there are clues laced in the part about playing Xiang Guo that let you know.  I also try to cut down on gamer jargon so that it could be more easily taught to people new to roleplaying.  I know that for me as a player, my first concern is getting a firm grip on the world of the character I'm playing.  If you have ever played D&D when an unexpected newbie to roleplaying showed up, you have an idea of what I hope to avoid.  

After understanding the world, I flesh out the important things which make my character what it is.  I tend to think in terms of psychology, history, and personality as opposed to skills and special abilities.  I like to get an idea of my character as a person first, then embellish the rest.  I wished to reward creating an organic character by making this process integral to the system, not just an afterthought.  In other words, in most RPGs, you could still create a character without history, motivations, personality, or quirks and still use the system.  In Xiang Guo, these things are needed before you could even start to play.

QuoteAllow players to bid their Specialities without having to spend any Story Points at all.  As you have it now, it seems 1 SP must be spent on every action, in order to make it happen, but this would seem to eat up SPs really quickly.  But if, as in Nobilis, the Specialty rank represents what the character can do WITHOUT Story Points, resolution of non-controversial issues (which no one wanted to challange) would go faster.

The idea is a good one, but the reasoning behind it is not what I had in mind.  Story Points only come into play during points of contention.  In general, if nobody objects to or contests your character's perogative to do something, it gets done.  However, when there are points of contention regarding the direction of the story, that's when story points come into play.  Specialties only help the story go in a character's favor during these times.  Most often, it doesn't come up at all.  Usually, it determines how the character negotiates obstacles, but it could also flavor how the world reacts to the character.

QuoteWhat happens in conflicts that go beyond character vs. character?  For instance, if someone is climbing a wall, who bids the SP to challange them?  It wouldn't seem to make sense for another character to try to resist their success, unless you mean for there to be elements of player-player antagonism.

I'm glad you brought this up, because I was thinking about it (well, I was bugging my mother about it).  In any case, if you keep in mind that each and every part of Xiang Guo is a story, this naturally includes the landscapes (I think I stated it in the description).  Yes, the land itself has a will of its own.  As with creatures in Xiang Guo, the landscapes have their own stories, and they too are endowed with Story Points they can use.  Generally, it is the human who creates these things which determines the Story Points available to them.  Considering my example, if I were to sit down and detail the appearance, history, and nature of the Silver Mountains I mentioned in Dobie's character portrait, they too would have Story Points.  If anyone were to dare its peaks, they would have to contend with the power of the Silver Mountains' story as with anything else.  In a sense, settings are characters too.  

In fact, sometimes the power of the landscape is more dangerous and insiduous than its Story Point pool would indicate.  Consider a landmark I will call the Marsh of Despair (to avoid copyright issues).  The Marsh of Despair began as a nice enough place (It certainly wasn't called such then), but many who no longer wished to live began to use it as a place to dispose of themselves.  Over the centuries, as the despair and corpses of those sorrowful souls piled up, the Marsh of Despair began to take on a more sinister edge, spreading its sadness to any living thing that passed through it.  Now it seeks only to drag others into its depressing depths.  Any who cannot resist its sadness sinks into it.  It is a dank, dreary, place, full of foul pools and muck.  Even the air weighs down the spirit, saturates a creature's will to live.  From these details alone, Marsh of Despair has 12 Story Points (Specialty: Despair and Pain, both at 6).  It's not much compared to what you could start off with, but let's just leave it at that.  

Now, enter a Hero, who is on a quest.  He is brave, strong, and handsome, as tall and straight as a fir tree and with hair of shimmering gold.  Let's give Hero 12 Story Points to match the marsh (Specialties: Might and Majesty).  Hero comes across the marsh, and is immediately struck by its despair.  He could be wise and go around, but no, he is a hero, and heroes don't do that (not in his mind).  The human who created the Marsh of Despair bids 1 point.  Since his Despair rating is 6, this means that the marsh's total bid is 7.  Being brave enough to be deterred by a measly swamp, ups the ante to 8 points.  Hero will go through the swamp.  The marsh ups the bid to 9 points.  Hours later, the despair returns to our Hero, deeper this time, but Hero is on a quest.  Hero bids 10; he goes on, as hard as it is for him to resist the lure of the swamp's murky depths.  And so and and so forth.  If the marsh runs out of Story Points or relents, it cannot harm the Hero anymore.  If the Hero runs relents, he sinks into the swamp.

With your idea, though, the dramatic tension could be increased by having things rise in small increments.  It may be good, maybe not.  It depends.

I know it can be hard to understand from the perspective of more traditional RPGs.  However, since you are familiar with more narrative game formats, you understand what I mean.

Quotethe game concepts remind me a bit of the Ethereals from In Nomine, who live in the dreamworld and feed on human beliefs & worship.  The Ethereal Player's Guide is supposed to finally come out in February, and you might want to take a look at it.  Much of it is written by R. Sean Borgstrom, who wrote Nobilis.

I took a peek at In Nomine, and while some of the ideas expressed were cool (such as making Gabriel female, as she is in the minds of many angelologists), it lacked a certain something that normally grabs me when I decide to purchase a roleplaying game.

Quote from: Green

QuoteIs there any real reason you're deciding to go with a Chinese title?  There doesn't seem to be anything in the setting that specifically calls for it.

Other than aesthetics, no.  I generally don't think language should be a limiting factor in the attitude of believing that one should only use words of other languages if the setting is dominated by the culture creating it.  Variants from Latin and English were generally too bland or already taken.  Also, I think that going into a different linguistic system sort of helps establish the universal nature of the game.  It is not a game just about European (or better yet: American or English) stories.  I may switch to another term, perhaps even one of the African languages, if I find it suits the game better.  In fact, an African term would be ideal, as it would seem fitting that the birthplace of modern humanity would also be the birthplace of human stories..

On the flip side:
Choosing something as salient as a title is a very important part of what impression the game creates.  When I hear 'Xiang Guo", I instantly think, "Mythic China."  I pose that rather than setting your game into a 'universal' frame, you're setting up a cultural expectation that you don't fulfill afterward.  The reason that Latin, Greek, and the various Romance languages make things sound international is because they're everywhere, not because they're foreign.  Things like Chinese, Japanese, Thai... these languages aren't percieved as widespread; they're very closely associated with cultures.  I do like your idea of using an African term, though I would caution you to do your research well - Afrikaans is mostly Dutch; a lot of Northern African languges are more Semitic than genuinely African.

After searching through the internet for a different term to use, I settled on Sanskrit.  The word I came up with for this place is Kathanaksaya, which roughly means "realm of tales/stories."  Now how I'm going to shorten that is beyond me.

I would suggest, if you're using Sanskrit and want to shorten Kathanakshaya, either drop the 'na' and use Kathakshaya (what was the na doing there?), use the compound Kathaloka (using the more common word 'loka', place or region, rather than kshaya, which I've only seen translated as "dominion"; kshaya has a connotation of a place that's ruled.), or even go in a different direction entirely: Kathanika and kathika are terms for storytellers; Katha-Pitha (the two 'th's are different there; the first is like English thin, while the second is like boot heel.) means "pedestal of story", it's the name of a section of some Sanskrit book.

Since you are so much more adept at linguistics than I am, I'll let you name the thing and be done with it.

I apologize for the tone of that last post.  I was frustrated, and I thought you were being condescending because it seemed like you assumed I was ignorant.

Not at all, sir Green.  I apologize if my post had that tone.  I'm actually very impressed by you; your game idea's great, and the discussions it's been generating have been totalyl fascinating for me.  It happens that I'm a little bit of an amateur Sanskrit student, and I was just throwing out some ideas.  Frankly, I really like Kathanaksaya.  It's a beautiful word.  

I think we're drifting, though, so back to the game:

You mentioned earlier that:

QuoteIn other words, in most RPGs, you could still create a character without history, motivations, personality, or quirks and still use the system. In Xiang Guo, these things are needed before you could even start to play.

I find this comment very interesting.  I see how it ties into the system of Story Point awards you've set up; it's great thinking, IMO.  But, once the Story Points are awarded, do these things have any impact on play, other than the influence they may have on players deciding to contest actions?  I'm wondering if you trust the players to play 'in background' or whether you have an enforcement mechanic set up.

Second, I'd like to know more about things changing through play, as you implied the Marsh of Despair did in your example.  Is there a procedure for this that I didn't notice among your earlier posts, or something you haven't told us about yet?

Quote from: four willows weepingI think we're drifting, though, so back to the game:

You mentioned earlier that:

QuoteIn other words, in most RPGs, you could still create a character without history, motivations, personality, or quirks and still use the system. In Xiang Guo, these things are needed before you could even start to play.

I find this comment very interesting.  I see how it ties into the system of Story Point awards you've set up; it's great thinking, IMO.  But, once the Story Points are awarded, do these things have any impact on play, other than the influence they may have on players deciding to contest actions?  I'm wondering if you trust the players to play 'in background' or whether you have an enforcement mechanic set up.

Second, I'd like to know more about things changing through play, as you implied the Marsh of Despair did in your example.  Is there a procedure for this that I didn't notice among your earlier posts, or something you haven't told us about yet?

As far as playing on your character's background, I don't have a mechanic set up just yet, but I think it could be easier to gain Story Points if you play along with the character you created.  Of course, in the interest of maintaining a dynamic system, I'll need to think about what sorts of changes are OK and which are not.

I'm not sure what you mean about things changing through play, but I think I did state that when you do bid Story Points, it should be described in a way that creates dramatic tension.  I may even allow for Story Points to be used as a way to influence the story beyond conflict.  It would have to depend on the character's background, of course, but how this would happen is beyond me at this point.

Now that I think about it, do you mean "changes" as in a character influencing the setting without necessarily being opposed by it?  Say, if you wanted your character to (be able to) do or have something that doesn't necessarily relate to conflict?  Like, if a player decides that her character should have an amulet that allows him to turn into a bear, how Story Points would deal with that?  If that is your line of thought, I'll have to think on this a bit more.