The Forge Archives

I haven't written the section on magic yet, but here goes. It's called Pagoda because of it's three Degrees, and how they are stacked upon each other.

Pagoda

   Pagoda is a game of wuxia, or melodramatic chinese martial arts. Characters are made up of three Degrees: Elements, Aspects, and Paths. There are five components of each of the first four Degrees, and an infinite number of Paths, although any given character possesses only five.

Elements

   The First Degree of a character is their Elements. Elements are the base components of the world; they are the things that bind the universe and all living things together. Characters can Sense (1) two elements, are in Harmony (2) with two other elements, and have Mastery (3) of the fifth. The five Elements are Air, Earth, Fire, Water, and Void.

   The Air element is subtle, indicating travel, deception, and knowledge. The Earth element is direct, indicating strength, health, and resistance. The Air and Earth elements are in opposition. A character that has Mastery of Air can not be in Harmony with Earth, and likewise, a character that has Mastery of Earth can not be in Harmony with Air.

   The Fire element is proud, indicating destruction, ingenuity, and awe. The Water element is accepting, indicating cleansing, transformation, and friendship. The Fire and Water elements conflict. A character that has Mastery of Fire can not be in Harmony with Water, and likewise, a character that has Mastery of Water can not be in Harmony with Fire.

   The element Void is mysterious, indicating harmony, magic, and secrets. Unlike its four cousins, Void is opposed to no other element. Contrarily, Void is the essence of synchrony between the other four building blocks of the world. A character that has Mastery of Void can not choose to put their Flaw into an element at the end of character creation.

Aspects

   The Second Degree of a character is their Aspects. As Elements are the foundations of the world, Aspects are the foundations of a human being. Characters are Adept (1) in two Aspects, Strong (2) in two Aspects, and Prodigious (3) in the fifth. The five Aspects are Power, Grace, Cunning, Awareness, and Presence.

   Power is a character's muscle and endurance. Power is the ability to hit hard, be hit hard, and remain standing. A high Power might be required to lift a fallen tree, or to budge the great boulder blocking the entranceway of an ancient shrine to the deities.

   Grace is a character's finesse and agility. Grace is the ability to strike precisely, and to not be where blows land. A high Grace might be required to leap a great distance, or to slip quietly past the alert guard waiting at the entrance to the Emperor's chamber.

   Cunning is a character's wit and imagination. Cunning is the ability to trick an enemy, and to realize when one is being fooled. A high Cunning might be required to survive in a barren desert, or to convince the province that the Celestial Mandate has abandoned their ruler.

   Awareness is a character's perception and the acuteness of their senses. Awareness is the ability to find a hidden clue, and to realize when something is missing. A high Awareness might be required to notice someone sneaking up behind you, or to react to the man with the poison-tipped blow dart in time.

   Presence is a character's bearing and willpower. Presence is the ability to cow others, and to hold your head high when disgraced. A high Presence might be required to intimidate the provincial duke into submission, or to continue the charge in spite of a wound.

Paths

   The Third Degree of a character is their Paths. Where Aspects are the basic structures of a man, Paths are how the architect chooses to elaborate upon those structures. Characters are Followers (1) of two paths, Accomplished (2) at two paths, and Legendary (3) in a fifth. Some sample Paths are described below.

• The Path of the Sword teaches melee weaponry and fighting.
• The Path of the Fist teaches unarmed martial arts.
• The Path of the Bow teaches ranged weaponry and archery.
• The Path of the Shaman teaches ancestral and spirit magic.
• The Path of the Sorcerer teaches elemental magic.
• The Path of the Beast teaches the handling and riding of animals.
• The Path of the Honorable teaches honor and glory.
• The Path of the Invisible teaches stealth and ambush.
• The Path of the General teaches leadership and tactics.
• The Path of the Emperor teaches intrigue and statesmanship.
• The Path of the Survivor teaches self-preservation.
• The Path of the Lover teaches passion and emotion.
• The Path of the Magi teaches knowledge and understanding.
• The Path of the Balanced teaches harmony between all elements and with all else.
• The Path of the Scourge teaches intimidation and brutality.
• The Path of the Vengeful teaches justice and revenge.
• The Path of the Meditative teaches introspection and careful consideration.
• The Path of the Body teaches fitness and athleticism.
• The Path of the Laymen teaches crafts and professions.
• The Path of the Merchant teaches acquiring wealth and determining value.

   These are only some of the possible paths. Literally an infinite number of paths could be created, but the amount of overlap would be immense. As a general rule, a Path should be a particular characteristic of an Aspect or element, although exceptions to this rule are fine, as long as the Path makes sense.

Flaws

   No man or woman in history has ever been close to perfect, and neither are characters in Pagoda. Although not a Degree, Flaws are a vital part of any character. People are defined by what they can't do, as much as by what they can. Players will create one predominant Flaw for their character.

   A Flaw will be attached to a particular Element, Aspect, or Path. Note that you cannot attach a Flaw to a path that you do not have, and if you are a Master of the Void, you cannot attach a Flaw to an Element.

   Once you have chosen an Element, Aspect, or Path for your Flaw, you must briefly describe it. Example descriptions are Overconfident (for Fire), Blindness (for Awareness), and Uncontrollable (for the Path of Sorcery).

   Now you must explain why this Flaw hinders your character, and how it may help. Note that both parts of a Flaw are equally important. Continuing the Blindness example from above, the obvious hindrance is that the character cannot see. However, they have come to realize that the other senses are equally important, and have honed their senses of smell and hearing.

The Rules of the Game

   Note the numerical value that goes along with each descriptor of an Element, Aspect, or Path. While the descriptors are more aesthetically pleasing, it is upon these numbers that the 'mechanics' of the game are based.

   When a character attempts a difficult action, their player must choose an Element and an Aspect that pertain to that action. If they can, they may also choose a relevant Path. For example, attacking with a sword might be a Fire / Grace / Path of the Sword action, since it involves attempting to destroy something, agility and coordination, and hand to hand combat. Casting a divination might be an Air / Awareness / Path of the Shaman action, since it involves knowledge, seeing, and magic. Running on water might be a Water / Presence / Path of the Balanced action, since it directly involves water, and requires concentration and harmony between the elements.

   The player will then roll a number of normal six-sided dice equal to the sum of the numerical values of the Element, Aspect, and maybe Path selected. If they roll at least a doubles (two dice show the same number), they have succeeded at the action. Easier and harder actions might require different rolls, as shown on the table below.

Difficulty   Roll       Example
Easy         None       Jump over a mountain stream
Difficult    Doubles    Walk on water as if it were solid ground
Very Hard    Triples    Land unscathed from a thirty foot fall
Legendary    Quadruples Punch through a foot of solid brick
Impossible   Quintuples Climb a mile-high vertical cliff in ten minutes

   If a character is taking an action that is being actively resisted by another player, the roll that they need is not set. Instead, both players make a roll. The roll in which more dice show the same number is superior (triples beats doubles, and so on). If both rolls are tied in this respect, the game master decides who wins the conflict. This type of character against character confrontation is called an Opposed Roll, while other rolls are known as Unopposed Rolls.

Using Void Points

   The Void represents the harmony between the other four elements. Characters with a high Void can take advantage of this harmony to, for a moment, act with the perfect synchronous clarity of the Void.

   A number of times per game session equal to a character's numerical Void rating, a player may use a Void Point to increase their character's roll by one step. They must do this before any dice have actually been rolled. So, for instance, if a character makes a void assisted roll, and scores Doubles, it would be counted as Triples. Note that you may not take back your Void Point after the roll has been made.

Fighting

   When two characters engage in combat, they will make a series of Opposed Rolls. During a combat, time is divided into rounds; periods of time in which each character can take one or more actions. Each round is about three seconds long in real-time terms.

   At the beginning of a round, each player will make a roll, using either the Air or Fire Element, either the Awareness or Grace Aspect, and the Path of either the Sword, Fist, or Bow. A doubles indicates that the character can take two actions during the turn, a triples means three actions, and so on. A character take a reaction (such as parrying a sword) any number of times, regardless of the result of their roll.

   Actions include things like attacking with any weapon, attempting to trip or disarm an opponent, disengaging from a melee, or rerolling a reaction. Characters can take an action whenever they like, as long as no other character is currently taking an action, and they haven't used their full allotment for the round. When multiple characters attempt to act at the same time, the Game Master determines who acts first. When all characters are out of actions, a new round begins.

   When a character hits another character in combat, the defender takes a point of damage. If the defender didn't get a duplicate roll (they didn't even get doubles), they take one extra point of damage, unless the attacker made a similarly miserable roll. If the attacker's roll was at least two degrees higher than the defender's (quadruples against doubles, for example), the defender takes one more point of damage.

   When a character has taken at least as much damage as the numerical value of their Power Aspect, they are Injured, and whenever they make a roll, they roll one less die. When they have taken at least as much damage as the combined numerical values of their Power Aspect and Earth Element, they are Wounded, and their rolls are penalized by two dice. When they have taken more damage than the combined numerical values of their Power and Presence Aspects and their Earth Element, the pain has driven them unconscious. If they take any more damage, they will most likely die.

Cool.  Not enough crazy wuxia games out there.

One question though, while I ponder the mechanics: what's with Void?  I mean, if you're trying to represent Chinese martial arts (even in an appropriated, exotified way), using a non-traditional arrangement of elements seems odd.  AFAIK, the standard Chinese set is Fire, Water, Metal, Earth, and Wood (the Japanese set often trades Metal for Air), and it seems odd to alter that, since it comes with a predetermined set of guidelines about which element detroys which other element.

Void is neat and all, but why not make it seperate from the elements, since that would fit Chinese traditions and ideology better?  Non-being is a pretty important part of both Daoist and Buddhist thought, so it would fit right in.

Later.
Jonathan

Hey Johnathan!

I know nothing at all about Chinese history (aside from Honors World Civ), so all I had to go on were my handy dandy Feng Shui (the rpg, not furnature arangement), L5R, and Oriental Adventures d20 books.

What does Wood symbolize? I'm guessing that it's a representation of life, growth, and development. If so, that would fit right in as useful in-game, taking a bit of pressure off of Water and Air. What element is Wood in harmony with? Does it conflict with any other element, in particular?

Hey Jeph,

Second for the crazy wuxia thing. I can't get enough of it.

Line two says do some research, starting with Chinese medicine around the time of the Boxer Rebellion. Lots of good stuff to be found if you put in the time. The elements ultimately derive from the philosophy of Taoism.

The Five Phases will give you plenty to think about, and this page provides links to several translations of the Tao Te Ching.

I am sure you are familiar with Dragon Fist, but have you seen Tim Denee's Final Stand? Not much historical stuff, but lots of attitude. Jared Sorensen's octaNe is, of course, another must read.

I think you have a solid beginning on your game. Be sure to keep us updated.

Later,
Grant

While the mechanics are interesting... what besides your mechanic's names give your game a Wuxia feel?

Are you going to have a big section on China?  Most of us like the concepts, but really don't know much about it.

Are you going to have a section on wuxia genre conventions/ tropes?  What makes a movie wuxia and how does that translate into game terms?

How are you going to ensure a more wuxia/ chinese feel to the game and in play?

These are the questions I have for you.  

[/i]

Quote from: MoonHunterWhile the mechanics are interesting... what besides your mechanic's names give your game a Wuxia feel?

Are you going to have a big section on China?  Most of us like the concepts, but really don't know much about it.

Are you going to have a section on wuxia genre conventions/ tropes?  What makes a movie wuxia and how does that translate into game terms?

How are you going to ensure a more wuxia/ chinese feel to the game and in play?

These are the questions I have for you.  

Wuxia has crazy high-strung action-packed wire-fu martial arts. But it is not about crazy high-strung action-packed wire-fu martial arts. It's not about the fighting, it's about why the characters do the fighting.

This is the reason for the First Degree, and, in my opinion, most important Degree: Elements. In some cases, as in the walking on water example, the element relates directly to the task. But in most cases, the element relates to why you are doing this: Why are you chasing the evil Eunuch warlcok? To cleanse the earth of him, to restore balance. Therefore, you use the Water element when you make your roll to track him.

I am currently writing up the section on Shamanism and Sorcery. This Shamanism section, especially, will enhance the oriental feel, as it deals directly with ancestral spirits and the spirits of places and things.

I plan to make the intro quite a bit longer, with the standard "what is roleplaying?" section, and yes, I will add more on Wuxia. Throughout the rules, I plan on incerting bits of eastern philosophy (once I learn some of it, all I know at the present is a bit of Daoism and Buddhism, and a dash of the Art of War).

Of course, the sample setting will be strongly Chinese flavored, with maybe a dash of other oriental cultures. Honor will be a big deal, of course, as will caste and family. And it won't have ninjas. That's a promise. ;-)

Jeff S.

I am really digging the mechanics. This ranks up with Sorcerer (and by extension, Donjon), the Pool, octaNe, and InSpectres for minimal handling time, IMO.

I agree with Jonathan regarding the elements, though I'll admit that changing them does throw off the whole opposed-elements thing a little. I'm not sure what can be done about that, though I'm thinking the answer to that probably lies in the research.

Keeping Void separate from the elements proper, I think, makes the idea of it being there, and its use in-game, more elegant. Maybe it can be the basis for a reward system? Like giving out Void points for something, maybe for keeping in line with the standard tropes of the wuxia genre? (I haven't sat down and studied the genre enough to be more specific than that), and then those points can then be spent to bump up the success level.

Otherwise, it looks fantastic. I like the idea of choosing an element for a roll based on why you're attempting a course of action. That's not something you see every day (or indeed at all, in some games).

-- Ben

Quote from: JephBut it is not about crazy high-strung action-packed wire-fu martial arts. It's not about the fighting, it's about why the characters do the fighting.

Coincidentally, that's almost exactly what Shreyas Sampat used as his premise for "Refreshing Rain," his crazy Ma-Jiang-based wuxia game.  You might want to check it out, just to see what other wuxia-ness has come out of the Forge.  And Shreyas' work is damn amazing too :)

http://www.geocities.com/torchbearer_rpg/rain.html

Later.
Jonathan

After reading the links you've all kindly provided, I'm thinking that the traditional Chinese elemental cycle might work. Instead of your Mastery element just deciding one of your Sense elements, it would decide one of your Sense element (the one that hinders it) and one of your Harmony elements.

Example: Water nourishes Wood is cut by Mettle. Therefore, if Wood is your Mastery element, Water will be one of your Harmony elements, and Mettle will be one of your Sense elements.

I also like the idea of Void as a reward. A nifty idea: Void Points could be used to tie Flaws into the game more effectively. Whenever a character uses their Flaw effectively, or is hindered by it, they gain a Void point. I think this works out nicely, as the balanced Yin and Yang of a flaw is like the balanced synchrony of Void. Of course, that also describes Wood . . .

-Jeff S.

Quote from: Jeph
Wuxia has crazy high-strung action-packed wire-fu martial arts. But it is not about crazy high-strung action-packed wire-fu martial arts. It's not about the fighting, it's about why the characters do the fighting.

This is the reason for the First Degree, and, in my opinion, most important Degree: Elements. In some cases, as in the walking on water example, the element relates directly to the task. But in most cases, the element relates to why you are doing this: Why are you chasing the evil Eunuch warlcok? To cleanse the earth of him, to restore balance. Therefore, you use the Water element when you make your roll to track him.

My questions would be: How does the system support the why and remain enjoyable for all participants? If the evil Eunuch requires you to use Water, it looks like high-Water characters will dominate play.

If you're looking to support the emotional impact of Wuxia, I would suggest the system also support conflicting emotions (love vs. duty, revenge vs. peace, self vs self-sacrifice, etc) that show up all the time in the films.

Quote from: Zak Arntson

My questions would be: How does the system support the why and remain enjoyable for all participants? If the evil Eunuch requires you to use Water, it looks like high-Water characters will dominate play.

If you're looking to support the emotional impact of Wuxia, I would suggest the system also support conflicting emotions (love vs. duty, revenge vs. peace, self vs self-sacrifice, etc) that show up all the time in the films.

The thing is, all character's don't have to use Water when tracking the Eunuch. Perhaps my character is a shaman that believes in harmony between all things, and that the Eunuch's elemental magic is a blemish upon the earth, and the earth must be cleansed: then, I'd use Water, for it's cleansing aspect.

But, perhaps the Eunuch sacrificed my father as a petition to one of the darker gods of the land, and I must seek revenge for my beloved elder: Then, I'd use Fire, for it's pride and destruction aspects.

Mybe I am the bandit/yakuza who protects a local village, and the Eunuch's evil sorcery has taineted the land, driving off the spirits of growth and fortune that make the village prosper, and I am tracking the Eunuch to help the land resist this taint: then, I will use Earth, for it's fortitude and resistance aspects.

Do you see how any element might fit any situation, depending on the motives of a character? Or even how one motive might be used to justify more than one element?

Hey Jeph,

Huh. I completely forgot about Refreshing Rain. You should probably take a look at Paul Mason's Outlaws of the Water Margin. He takes the idea in a different direction, but I am sure you can find some interesting stuff to play with. Also, Leonard Hung has assembled a great deal of information about applying Chinese tropes to roleplaying here.

Will Pagoda overtly support ret-conning (known around here as Author or Director stance)? By which I mean, will the player be able to choose an element and then supply the reason that element is the correct one for the situation? That is a pretty neat method of supporting color, but it rubs some people the wrong way, so I wanted to know if I am understanding you correctly.

Later,
Grant

Quote from: ThreeGee
Will Pagoda overtly support ret-conning (known around here as Author or Director stance)? By which I mean, will the player be able to choose an element and then supply the reason that element is the correct one for the situation? That is a pretty neat method of supporting color, but it rubs some people the wrong way, so I wanted to know if I am understanding you correctly.

Later,
Grant

I'm guessing that most of the time, if the connection is not obvious, the player will have to supply the reason, and then choose the element based upon that. However, it's really up to the GM. If they want the player to choose the element, and then describe the action based upon their choice, thats fine; but personally, I prefer reason-then-choose over choose-then-reason.

BTW, I'm planning on switching to wood/water/earth/fire/metal tomorrow.

-Jeff S.

In case you want to incorperate it into your text, here's a transliteration of the elements in Chinese:

Wood: mu ("moo")
Water: shui ("shway")
Earth: tu ("too")
Fire: huo (like the words "who" + "awe", but as a single syllable)
Metal: jin ("jeen")

They also have tones (because Chinese is a tonal language) and characters, which I can send you if you need them.  Also, if you want Chinese names for other terms in your game, or need appropriate names for sample characters, I'd be glad to help out.

Later.
Jonathan

Thanks, Johnathan! I already knew Water (from Feng Shui, which means Water and Air, IIRC), but that's about it.

As for other terms, maybe for other intrinsic character qualities. What would be the best Chinese term for a Flaw? A Path?

With the restructuring of the Elements used in the game, I'm considering renaming Void points. Perhaps Chi points?