The Forge Archives

Our Trollbabe campaign has proceeded to its third session, which I'm happy to report was, at least in my eyes, much more satisfying than our second.  The campaign is now definitely capped at five sessions, placing us square in the milddle.  This is not for any grand "story arc" reason, but simply because in a few weeks, Seattle is about to become slightly poorer, and New Orleans all the richer when we trade Clinton to them for two first round draft picks from next year's crop of indie game designers.

Prep this time around was a rushed affair as I had spent the week recovering from a major server crash, and then Friday cast me headlong into the three week odyssey of frantic joy that is the Seattle International Film Festival. [aside: if "Musa the Warrior" comes to an art house near you, GO SEE IT!  Capsule Review: Riddle of Steel the Movie, starring the Korean Conan]

My prep notes were frantically scribbled on scraps of paper between rushing from one theater to another.  In the end, a lot of these notes were memory jogglers for a messy mass of ideas in my head, and this may have actually helped me achieve the necessary Zen headspace for Trollbabe GMing.  When it's not on the paper in black and white, it's much harder to get attached to your vision of "the way it should all turn out."

Also I took some courage from the heretical ramblings in the trollbabe one-session adventures thread, and decided to run the situation that I had planned for Thanna, the ex-gladiator Trollbabe, in the previous session, despite the fact that it was "out of sync" in terms of scale with the other two situations (personal vs. small group).

Part of the reason was one less thing to prep, but another reason was that is was an experiment that I really wanted to try:  dungeon-crawl Trollbabe!

Thanna has been adventuring in a port city called Ruin, which in my mind has been developing into this eastern European flavored mound of thousands of years of continuous habitation, loosely inspired by Prague.  Of course such a place must have an undercity, and I drew Thanna into it with a situation involving a kidnapped child, a rogue necromancer and his pet frankenstein monstrosity, and a horde of sewer goblins.

It seemed to go over well with the player [oops -- I've just been informed that the player had some major dissatisfaction, which I hope he'll post about], and we had some nice dungeon crawly bits such as the fight with the aforementioned sewer goblins, out of which developed a beautiful example of the player and GM riffing off each other.  Thanna narrated skewering a goblin each on the fighting knives she uses, and lifting them up to slam them against the ceiling, but rolled a discommode.  So she narrated that simply skewering a goblin isn't enough to always kill the little bugger, and now they were scratching and flailing away in her face.  I ruled that one of the goblins fell back down into the muck, but the other was stuck to the ceiling by the knife through its belly.

It was still stuck there at the end of the fight, gibbering insults, so Thanna attempted to question it, assuming it was dying.  But I was suddenly struck by vision of Wormy [god bless you David Trampier, wherever you are], where goblins are these generally ineffective little creatures, but nearly impossible to kill (they just regenerate when you squish'em).  So the goblin offered to lead Thanna to the "big bad" if only she'd unstick'm from the ceiling.

Needless to saw, "Sawtooth the Sewer Goblin" is now one of her relationships.

Not all was roses, as I did make one misstep in running Thanna's thread.  She was desperately signaling that she wanted Jiri, a street kid that is another of her relationships, to be kidnapped by pirates.  And I kept undoing every attempt she made to get the kid into trouble.  Ack!  

Afterwards, when I realized what I had done, I had to think about why I was doing it.  I finally concluded that this was the result of a lingering GM habit of "don't screw around with the player's attachments unless you have a really good reason".  Which is of course nonsense in Trollbabe, since you have to get the player's permission to do any such thing.  So in fact in my attempt to *not* screw the character, I *did* screw the player!  Old habits die hard, on both sides of the table.  Thanna's player started the session by asking the GM's permission to make a torch ("I look around for suitable materials"), to which I responded with a quick pep talk about "in Trollbabe, we say 'I reach down and grab some nearby rags and wrap them around a broken chair leg...'"

Clearly I wasn't paying attention during that pep talk :/

Or perhaps I had half an ear tuned to it.  In the case of Kweli, the human oriented, kung fu wielding Trollbabe, I think I did a fairly good job of following the player's lead, even when it involved driving the situation off a cliff.  Kweli took working passage on a trading ship at the end of the last session, and so the situation saw her ship anchoring into harbor in Stavgaard, where the pirate sloop Rapier, captained by the notorious Mary Ambree, was catching some R&R.  The stakes were provided by the fact that the pirate vessel had a cargo of kidnapped trolls down in the hold.

As a last minute whim, I determined that Rowland, a pirate who has been taken as an enemy by Yalla, our third Trollbabe (the magical one) was part of the crew.  This turned out to have a wonderful unexpected consequence.  Yalla's player was able to inject narration into Kweli's story thread, in the person of Rowland.  Woot!

The consequences in Kweli's case provided us with our first example of a Trollbabe taking it in the shorts, and the player loving every minute of it.  In the end, rather than any daring rescue, Kweli wound up locked in the hold of the pirate ship along with all the trolls.  Ah, but it seems Kweli and Captain Ambree may share some previously unremarked on past history.  We'll just have to wait till next time to find out.

Finally, Yalla.  The player had left me with pretty specific instructions about what Yalla was up to: "I'm going to be in this forest, and I'm looking for nasty magic."  After a bit of mulling, in a fit of strange inspiration, I hit upon the idea of ripping off the movie "Dog Soldiers" [also an excellent flick by the way].  So Yalla got an escort of troops from the political faction she's begun to ally herself with, which included such archetypes as Sgt. Baldwin, the fatherly commander, Jayks, the squirrely coward, Alexander the macho asshole, Kai the scout (and token person of color), Cpl. Gabriel, the good hearted but inexperienced second, and of course Supernatural Events Specialist Hewrey, the apprentice mage (what's the MOS code for that again?).  Oh yeah, and a forest full of werewolves.  In the end, only Baldwin and Jayks bought the farm, Baldwin's death narrated by scrying spell as he attempted to rally a paniced Jayks and Alexander who had run off into the forest, and Jayks cut down by his own comrades as he stumbled back upon them in the dark forest.  The stakes of course being the survival of the troops.

One final note, we finally started seeing a lot of sharing of themes between stories.  The Pirates of the Burning Eye (originally created purely for color) have started to be a major theme, as all the 'babes have had dealings with them now, and the presence of a sinister outfit known only as the Ebon Hand has made its presence felt.  With the scale kicked up to organized group for our next go round, the cross fertilization should start to grown thick and fast (I hope).

I was a big fan of this episode - my character ended up with a perfect ending for her. However, I felt like I had to fight to get there, and I think the same thing happened to Thana's story as did to my character's, Kweli.

Several times during the game, I'd say, "I'd like a scene at..." and Wilhelm would jump in and tell me what several NPCs are doing there, even giving them a chance to interact with each other. In most situations, I wanted to come in right then, not wait a minute to have the plot move without my involvement. I'd have a good idea of what I wanted to do in the scene, and by the time I had a chance to speak, the concept was lost.

I know I should have spoken up during the game. Chalk it up to bad habits: "thou shalt not screw with the GM." Still, I saw John's face drop at the end as he said, "I'd like a cliff-hanger ending like this...." and then all the loose ends in the scene were wrapped up with some crossbow bolts.

Quote from: Clinton R. NixonI I'd have a good idea of what I wanted to do in the scene, and by the time I had a chance to speak, the concept was lost.

Clinton, thanks for bringing this up.  I'd like to get it out in the open and explore it so we can avoid mess ups like this in the future, and so that other folks who are trying to GM in the narrative mode can learn from my example.  From my perspective, all I was trying to do was "frame the scene", but it is clear that I have been perceived as yanking the story away from the players.

Part of what was going through my mind was the notion as conveyed in the Trollbabe rules that the situation that the Trollbabe walks into is full of NPCS "busily in action" regarding the stakes.  "Busily in action" to me means advancing their own agendas, which is why have them keep doing stuff.

I also am trying to apply my own understanding of "Story Now" by keeping the action moving, so if I perceive that the action is flagging, I've been feeling free to have NPCs jump up and do things to get the pot boiling again.

I'll definitely admit that suddenly imposing a wrap up on Thanna's story was the wrong thing to do.  I realized that within minutes of walking out the door, and I'd like to see what I can do to fix it, especially since I though that Thanna's thread was going really well right up till my big blunder.   I was stuck in the "one session/one story" mode (partially fueled, I now realize by the kind of gaming we've been doing at SGA monday nights).

However, I'll bring in an element I've found frustating as a GM in this campaign.  There have been several incidents where I started framing stuff, and the player reacted negatively, telling me "well I insinuated previously that X was going on, but you didn't have X happen."   Well, in some circumstances I'll cop to sheer stupidty (like the fact that I couldn't get it through my head that John wanted Jiri to be kidnapped by pirates), but in other cases, my reaction has been "well if you really wanted X, why didn't you say so."  I know as a GM, I've often dropped "insinuations" into my narrative which the players have either not noticed, or chosen to ignore.  And in a circumstance like that, if the player decides to lead things counter to my "insinuations" my policy has tried to be that I don't have a leg to stand on, since I didn't make that part of the situation explicit.  I kinda think the players need to be willing to make their desires explicit as well.

Hi rafial,

This thread is of immense interest to me, simply because all the stuff I've been saying about passing the Ball is happening right here.  The key point is the implicit communication that is occurring with the group.

QuoteThere have been several incidents where I started framing stuff, and the player reacted negatively, telling me "well I insinuated previously that X was going on, but you didn't have X happen."

And here's a case of folks expecting a certain kind of play, passing the ball, and getting a completely different kind than anticipated.  Teams with bad communication need to spend a lot of time saying, "Do this! Do that!", while teams who have it down simply "know" what to do.  

Recently its occured to me that the "standard" method of roleplaying involves the GM doing most of the talking, and the players doing most of the listening, whereas for effective protagonist play and ball handling, the GM has to be the best listener to pick up those subtle insinuations, and the players need to be the best talkers to get those across well.

Have you found that certain players give you a better "rapport" than others?  Or have you found that certain situations in game tend to work out better than others("I do great fight scenes, but the dialogue...")?  What role do Genre Expectations play in that?  Sorry for the buckshot approach of questions, but all of these might spark you on to some better understanding, plus I'm very interested to see what's going on with your communication in game.

Chris

I'm the player of the ex-gladiator trollbabe, Thana. Last session was indeed a very good session. Pretty much everything that happened in all three stories was interesting, exciting, and cool. I was particularly impressed with how Wilhelm was riffing off my desire as a player to stick around the city of Ruin and get my character more deeply stuck in its intrigues, even though my character wants almost nothing to do with some crazy human city. She'll come around, though, if she gets stuck there long enough. :)

Anyway, the session was A+ gaming material and I had an absolute blast... until the end. Like Wilhelm said, his impulse for wrapping everything up at the end of the session worked to completely destroy the end-scene we had created (explicitly calling it a 'cliffhanger' several times -- which to me meant that it would be addressed next session).

The end was a thoroughly de-protaganizing moment, since all 4 storylines Wilhelm and I had created for Thana were neatly solved (all at once!) by a group of NPCs while my trollbabe stood there and got to do nothing. Before we left, Wilhelm asked each of us about our plans for next session, and when he got to me, I pretty much had nothing to say. All of the interesting threads that I had planned to follow were now gone.

Now, I should probably say that I have very little experience as a player. In 20+ years of gaming, I have almost alawys been the GM. As a result, I think I am somewhat immature as a player and have not developed all of the skills that are required on that side of the table. In short, I took this failed end-scene pretty badly. I was ready to simply write-off Thana as a character, and create someone new. My first reaction was that Thana's story was just "gone" and if I wanted to enjoy the game, I needed a new vehicle through which to start a new story.

Fortunately, Wilhelm is a very good GM. We corresponded by email and managed to communicate pretty clearly about what had happened, and why, and what we needed to do to fix it. This level of explicit communication, outside of the game, is something that I have always encouraged as a GM myself and I'm glad to see it come to my rescue as a player.

Since the last scene with Thana was something of a blunder, Wilhelm suggested we simply have a "do over." I was very resistant to this at first, since it seemed to stretch the fictional reality a lot for me. But, after thinking about it some more, I realize that it's preferable to the alternatives, which are making a new character, or quitting the game -- neither of which I want to do, really. So, Thana gets her cliffhanger after all... thanks to a GM that listens to his players.

So, um... about Trollbabe. The text does address the kinds of issues that we've been having as a play group. Most of the recent strife comes from old habits regarding who can say what, and when, and why. I ran Feng Shui for 3 years (a game that is all about director stance), but I still asked Wil if I could find materials for a torch, instead of just creating it as part of my narration. That's my inexperience as a player showing. And the next time a scene is starting to go south for me, I'll say something -- player to GM -- instead of trying to somehow manage the situaiton solely through play. Judicious use of the "Free and Clear" concept will really help, I think.

Oh, and I also wanted to say: Wilhelm's stuff above about the goblins and he and I riffing off each other and stuff? That's Trollbabe firing on all cylinders. Thana ended up with a relationship to a creature that she had recently impaled, and this relationship isn't automatically "good". She and the little bugger are not instant friends or allies in the gameworld, which makes for a very interesting (and fun) dynamic for me as a player.

I think the reason that the poor ending scene was upsetting was because everything before it was so damn good.

Its been my experience over the years to game with players who thought that complete and total immersion into their characters was the only way to play.  What struck me about Feng's post was how simply he contrasts his desire to get stuck in the city with his character's desire to have nothing to do with the city.  

I applaud the sensibility of realizing that characters have no desires and to manipulate the situation into something the player is actually interested in.

Further, the "do over" is IMO one of the most underused GMing techniques out there.  Some times a scene just sucks.  Maybe players are having an off day (never play the climactic scene following a cliff hanger with players who are drunk, stoned, and operating on 2 hours of sleep for instance).  Sometimes like here there is a complete GM/players communication breakdown.  Lots of reasons.

I know quite a few players would consider the idea of a "do-over" to be akin to blasphemy, but IMO, a movie director gets more than one try to make a scene come out perfect...there's no reason a play group can't do the same.

Relegating oneself to be stuck with a resolution that is disatisfying to everyone involved due to some sense of obligation of continuity to a world that doesn't even exist makes little sense to me.

Kudos for taking the leap.

Quote from: Bankuei
And here's a case of folks expecting a certain kind of play, passing the ball, and getting a completely different kind than anticipated.  Teams with bad communication need to spend a lot of time saying, "Do this! Do that!", while teams who have it down simply "know" what to do.  

I think you are right on the money with the communication issues.  Yes, I  some groups will simply know what everybody wants, but I suspect that to get there, you have to start out with a lot of "Do this! Do that!"  Kinda reminds me of relationship counseling, where they teach you that just because you don't magically know what your partner is feeling and thinking from moment to moment doesn't mean your relationship is a failure.  That sort of rapport doesn't happen magically, it is learned, and learned by practice and feedback.

What does this mean for playing RPGs?  I think overemphasis on Actor stance has made people unwilling to "break the veil" for a few moments, and take discussions to the metagame level, where misunderstandings can be cleared up more quickly.  Kudos to Trollbabe for directly encourging that kind of interaction through explicit devices such as the "free and clear" phase.

QuoteHave you found that certain players give you a better "rapport" than others? Or have you found that certain situations in game tend to work out better than others("I do great fight scenes, but the dialogue...")?  What role do Genre Expectations play in that?

I'll certainly cop to thinking I have a better feel for some players than others.  I haven't noticed a difference between types of situations, but I do think that Genre Expectations may play a role, in so far as each player is definitely seeking their own brand of color, in some cases I think I'm more comfortable with, and can better describe, the kind of color the player is looking for.

I'll also toss out one seemingly small, but perhaps critical issue.  I've been trying to figure out why I wound up doing a particularly piss-poor job of picking up on what John (Feng) was trying to do in the last session, since I generally think of myself as a good listener.  It occured to me that because of the way we were seated, John was directly to my right, where I had to turn my head to look at him, whereas the other two players were directly in my line of vision.  Clinton said "when I saw John's face fall..."  I didn't see that.  I was looking in the wrong direction.  Something to keep in mind for the future.

And on another note, for those not familiar with one of the greatest gaming themed comics ever published, Wormy: http://www.angelfire.com/wa2/haroog/archive/062.htm