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After writing some thoughts and questions about resolution mechanics for sim games in this thread, here's my sketch of a sim game that has a resolution system that focuses on resolving the players efforts to explore setting rather than resolving character's attempts to perform tasks.

At least I think it does. And I think its sim. Please tell me if I'm getting this wrong.

Exploring the City
A) Players individually create tenets for an imaginary civilisation. Any aspect of that civilisation may be detailed. Players determine 5 different tenets in this way.

Tony creates "Kage Island" It's tenets are "Worship the cult of the sword", "Rice is the staple food", "Water cleans spiritual impurity", "Trees are very sparse", "Surrounded by seas".

Ben creates "The Gila mountain range". It's tenets are "Annual plague of lizards", "Matriarchal society", "Goats are kept by everyone", "Children are shepherds until chosen as apprentices for a trade", "Very cold area".

B) The GM creates an imaginary city which has contact with each of the player's civilisations.

Gerry creates the city of Catharge, the most important trading port in the known world.

C) The GM creates a guide. An individual within the city who could conceivably come in contact with visiting members of the players' civilisations.

Gerry creates "Portia" a beggar who works the docks.

D) The GM writes out a list of situations which the guide could typically find himself involved in. The GM presents this list to the players.

Gerry lists "Running from the watch", "Begging for alms", "Informing on smugglers", "Preparing food".

E) Each player, for their own civilisation, rolls a six-sided dice for each tenet of their civilisation. Rolling a 4, 5, or 6 is considered a fail. Meaning that the tenets of that civilisation have no particular influence on that kind of situation. Rolling a 1, 2, or 3 is a success. The player has a number of successes equal to the score on the dice. The player may once reroll any one dice until it yield successes.

Tony's successes are: Worship cult of the sword (2), Water cleans spiritual impurity (1), Surrounded by seas (1).

Ben's successes are: Annual plague of lizards (1) Goats are kept by everyone (1) Children are shepherds until chosen as apprentices for a trade (2) Very cold area (3)

F) The player can spend successes by using them to buy details for how members of the civilisation would behave in any of the situations. The details must reflect the tenet that generated the success.

Tony spends successes to buy details like this:
Worship cult of the sword - Never turn your back on an armed enemy (running from the watch),  never use bladed implements in cooking (preparing food).
Water cleans spiritual impurity - Money is tainted by human greed and must be washed before passed on again. (Begging for alms)
Surrounded by Seas - Always position yourself with the wind at your back (running from the watch)

Ben spends successes to buy details like this:
Annual Plague of Lizards - A gift of reptile meat is an insult (begging for alms)
Goats are kept by everyone - To offer a guest goat's milk is an insult (preparing food)
Children are shepherds - Gila people can run as fast as mountain goats (running from the watch), Gila people can see well in the dark (informing on smugglers)
Very cold area - Cold food is an insult to a guest (preparing for food), Clothes are the best gift (begging for alms), Gila people are always wrapped up and prepared for long waits (informing on smugglers)

G) When a situation has any bought details, the player may give the situation a name that is particular to his own civilisation.

Tony calls running from the watch, "The Way of Warfare". Calls begging for alms, "The Way of Money", and calls preparing food, "The Way of Sustenance".

Ben calls running from the watch "Flight", calls begging for alms, "Charity", calls preparing food "Hospitality" and informing on smugglers "Watching".

H) Each player creates an individual from their own civilisation.The player is responsible for ensuring that the character observes the details for any situation they find themselves in. They must create a reason for the character (PC) visiting the city. The GM must narrate events that will introduce the guide to the PCs, and involve the PCs in the situations which the guide typically finds herself.

Tony's PC (Hiro) has come to the city to arrange lumber shipments to Kage island. Portia offers to introduce him to the city merchants, however is spotted by a watchman who gives chase to the beggar. Tony narrates how his PC runs in a different direction from Portia, in order to keep the wind at his back in accordance with The Way of Warfare.

Ben's PC (Gola) has come to the city to sell a cart load of goat skins for his sister. When Portia and Hiro split he easily keeps up with Portia while spotting which way Hiro has run. Ben justifies this saying that the Gola people are skilled at Flight, able to run as fast as mountain goats.

I) The GM is responsible for ensuring that the inhabitants of the city respond consistently to PCs that are observing their civilisation details.  Every time the GM has the inhabitants respond in a way that threatens the PC's ability to pursue their reason for being there, the GM must pay that player a dice.

The dock lands gang see how fast Gola is. If they can "convince" him to be a runner for them they'll never fear the Watch again. They corner him and Portia and pull out some knives in order to be extra convincing. Dead men can't trade furs, so while narrating these events, Gerry pays Ben a dice.

Keeping the wind at his back means Hiro runs down an alley way which he shouldn't really run down. The Watch are now covering the alley. Hiro is lost in the back streets, still not having met any lumber merchants and now not even having any idea where his ship is. Tony asks the GM for a dice to reflect the threatening nature of these events and Gerry agrees, giving him one.

J) A Conflict arises any time circumstances complicate the PCs' relationship with their guide.  The player may roll the dice in their pool, attempting to get a number of successes equal or above a number determined by the GM. If successful the player may narrate any means or occurrences that would allow the character to be able to negate, ignore, or overcome the circumstances. The GM may instead choose to resolve the conflict (before rolling) by narrating circumstances that would alleviate any complications to the PC's relationship with their guide. All dice rolled in a conflict are returned to the GM after rolling.

Tony's character Hiro is lost in alley ways, realising he's lost any hope of finding his guide Portia again. He declares a conflict, rolling the dice in his pool. If he meets the GM's target number then he may narrate circumstances that get him back in contact with her.

The dock land gang are waving knives at Gola and Portia. Ben asks for a conflict as there's every chance this could be the end of Portia (not to mention Gola). Instead the GM narrates that the dock land gang promises "We're not interested in you girl, scram!". Portia whispers "If you get out of this you can find me at the Green Dragon" in Gola's ear and runs out of there. Gola's relationship with Portia is no longer being complicated by this event - she's safe, he knows where she is, she'll still be his guide if he wants that. It's only Gola whose life is getting complicated just now!

K) When players cannot use conflicts as an opportunity to narrate what is happening round about them, they can instead rely on their civilisation details. In certain situations the player can argue with the GM that the details would ensure a particular course to events.

Tony reminds Gerry that The Way of Money means that all Kage coins should be washed of human greed before being passed on. He claims that this means that all of Hiro's money would be especially shiny; throwing a few coins out the alley way should be a sufficient distraction for the watchmen. The GM agrees and narrates how the watchmen rush over to pick up the glittering coins allowing Hiro the opportunity to escape.

Ben reminds Gerry that the Gila people are skilled in Flight and are faster than mountain goats. Gerry therefore lets him narrate Gola dodging a knife and legging it away. Ben narrates that Gola will keep running until he finds a dark alley or abandoned ware house and take advantage of the fact that Gola people see well in the dark to avoid any trailing dock land gang members. Impressed, Gerry agrees that this is successful.

Designer Notes.
The guide represents the player's ability to explore.
Complications to the player's reason for being there, represent new avenues to explore.
Because the guide is initially tied up with the player's reason; new avenues threaten the player's relationship with their guide (thus reducing the chance the player will be able to explore those new avenues).

So... Give a free dice every time the player's reason for being there is complicated.

Player can ask for a conflict every time their relationship with their guide is threatened.

This allows players to preserve their relationship with their guide, and explore new avenues.

Influences:
In different ways, this game draws upon ideas presented in, and experiences of playing, Legend of the 5 Rings, Promised Sands, Paladin, The Pool, Universalis, and The Burning Wheel.

Good stuff.

Just wondering if there was a way to more formally tie storytelling about the city into the system. "Derek asks, 'what is that old ruin', the wiley old man responds, "there is an interesting story about that...'".

I teach a crime fiction course and your ideas connect with what we do with a shared universe writing project (set in a fictional city), but of course with a more formal 'game' approach to balance.

Looking forward to seeing this one develop.

Quote from: scobieGood stuff.

Just wondering if there was a way to more formally tie storytelling about the city into the system. "Derek asks, 'what is that old ruin', the wiley old man responds, "there is an interesting story about that...'".

I teach a crime fiction course and your ideas connect with what we do with a shared universe writing project (set in a fictional city), but of course with a more formal 'game' approach to balance.

Looking forward to seeing this one develop.

Thanks Scobie that's very kind.

Although I didn't make it clear in the rules (I wrote this sketch last night at 3 in the morning to try and demonstrate a point I wanted to make to myself - still not sure if it really proves what I wanted to say to myself) the GM is entirely responsible for creating and running the city and its populace. The players get loads of control over creating their own culture and reasons for coming to the city, but as soon as they meet the guide they are completely in the GMs hands and will get led by the nose through lots of "fish-out-of-water" situations.

So although the players have this amazing control over the cultures they create... its misleading because all they're really saying is "this is what my character is like" and even then they're doing it on the GMs terms because the GM is the one who hands them the list of situations that they need to think of their character in terms of.

My Theme-Chaser game is much more about collaborative fiction (shameless plug) As is Legacy of the Ages. (really shameless plug, I'm blushing now)

Topos is a very interesting looking game getting developed on these boards that also has collaborative fiction as a big element. Haven't had the chance to play it but I've heard good things about it over at indie netgaming
Have you written up any of your shared universe writing project notes? I'd be very interested in reading about it.

Doh! I reread your post and just realised what you meant - sorry, yeah that's a good idea. The guide is really the player's interface with the city, so yeah I should find ways to formalise ways the players can use the guide for exploring eg "Take me there", "Tell me about this" and so get involved in the complex histories and stories of the city.

What I'd love is for player-character doings to be integrated into the story of the city itself. So that in every session you could play a different character from a different culture who completes their reason for being in the city and then goes home, but the impact of your character would still remain on the city. So I could say to the guide - "Tell me friend, why is all that smoke over the eastern side of the river?" All the time knowing full well that it was my character in last night's game that stumbled on a gun-powder plot and ended up torching 15 blocks, heh heh...

Herowars/heroquest is said to be able to do that kind of thing - incorporate pc doings into the reality of the game world really well (I may be confused about that) I'm hoping to get a copy of heroquest when it comes out.

Players save up a pool of the dice they earn from the GM. The GM awards dice when the city responds to the PC in a way that complicates the very reason the PC came to the city.

When the PC's relationship with their guide is threatened the player may declare a conflict.

The GM can either avoid the conflict by narrating events that remove the threat to the relationship with the guide, or can accept the conflict.

On accepting the conflict the GM sets a target number - this is the number of successes needed for the player to modify the situation and alleviate the threat. The scale of this number should reflect the severity of the threat.

The player may chose to roll any or all dice in their pool. 4s, 5s, and 6s are fails. 1s, 2s, and 3s give one, two, three successes respectively.

Compare the player's success total to the GM's target number. If the successes total is equal to or higher than the target number, then the player may either accept the difference in number as free dice added to his pool, or narrate events that allow the character to ignore/overcome/nullify the threat to their relationship with their guide.

Rolling under the target number means that the player is unable to narrate events that mollify the threat and also loses all dice that were used in this roll (the player's pool remains untouched).
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I think this would allow players to prioritise how much they want to preserve their ability to explore, in any situation where the nature of the setting is vying with the players ability to explore that setting.

This is boldly, madly brilliant, and from what I've heard, feels rather HeroQuest-y.

One question: do you think it's possible to remove the guide with a modification of the mechanic, or would that totally break it? I can see a lot of players wanting to explore setting while also exploring highly independent adventurers.

Quote from: Dave PanchykThis is boldly, madly brilliant, and from what I've heard, feels rather HeroQuest-y.

One question: do you think it's possible to remove the guide with a modification of the mechanic, or would that totally break it? I can see a lot of players wanting to explore setting while also exploring highly independent adventurers.

That's a great question, I was wondering about that last night - I think the guide represents the player's capacity for future exploration. If the guide has already shown my PC how to get to the lumberyard from my ship at the docks and has introduced me to a couple of people, then theoretically I don't need the guide just now as I'm satisfied to just keep exploring the part of the setting I'm involved in. I can have all kinds of interesting adventures just in the little part of the setting that is known to me.

Also I think that although its risky to leave the guide to do your own exploring, a brave player can survive through clever use of their character's civilisation/cultural details. Like the Gola example in my first post, who uses his "fast as a mountain goat" and "can see well in the dark" cultural traits to outwit enemies and survive on his own without the guide. I guess that makes for a brave adventurer like you said, the pay off though is that Gola's player is just keeping his character alive - not learning much about the city at all away from his guide.

So yeah - I think you could use the guide to "open up a venue" of exploration, and then explore that bit by yourself for a while. Eventually you'll need to find your guide again if you want to open up new venues, or if NPCs are forcing you into new venues. Surviving without the guide in new venues would be exhilerating, but for effective exploration you'd need them to help you get started in each new venue.

Hmmm... a thought just popped into my mind. It's maybe not unlike Gandalf's role in the Hobbit - every now and again he shows up and introduces allies and explains histories and geographies to the party, then dissapears and lets them get on with exploring that new venue. When they're up against the wall he'll appear again and help make the transition to a new venue for exploring.

This is very close to how Universalis looked in it's earliest incarnations (before we extended most of the principles to their absurdly logical conclusions). The way we had it, there was no guide, however. I'm not sure I'm getting the reasoning behind the guide, just an in-game way to introduce details? If that were the case, I'd just let the GM do it with any NPC he liked. Or am I missing something?

Mike

Quote from: Tony IrwinAfter writing some thoughts and questions about resolution mechanics for sim games in this thread, here's my sketch of a sim game that has a resolution system that focuses on resolving the players efforts to explore setting rather than resolving character's attempts to perform tasks.

My quick read is that it's Situation that's being explored (I might be wrong).

I think to be said to have explored something one must have learned something about it. Often this is "we learned what was in the dungeon." Sometimes this could be "we learned what the Illuminati was really up to." Or even "I learned what it was like to be an alien."*

In this case, I didn't learn so much about the *city* (which seemed pretty generic. I learned there were docks and a watch) as I did about the culture's impact on situation (the guy who runs the wrong way).

A possible way (that I would like) to learn about the City (forex):
The GM takes five index cards. Each has a location on one side and a secret on the other. When the character interacts with the location (or important person or festival or other setting element) the secret comes into play.

At the end of the game when all the cards are revealed the players would have learned the secrets of the city (maybe each player could contribute a location and secret).

-Marco
* and yes, there'll always be *something* you learned, no doubt--but I learned more about what it was like for Hiro to be chased by the guard than about the dark alleys...

Quote from: Mike HolmesThis is very close to how Universalis looked in it's earliest incarnations (before we extended most of the principles to their absurdly logical conclusions). The way we had it, there was no guide, however. I'm not sure I'm getting the reasoning behind the guide, just an in-game way to introduce details? If that were the case, I'd just let the GM do it with any NPC he liked. Or am I missing something?

Mike

Very sorry for the delay in replying to you, many thanks for your comments - yeah the more I work on it, the more "Universalisy" it looks, especially in its new incarnation. Universalis seems to be the language I use for thinking about games now.

When I was thinking about what is it that lets players explore setting, it seemed like a guide would be a good means of summarising all those things. It would let players prioritise their exploration. They can use the guide to explore new aspects, or leave the guide to fool around with the aspects they've already encountered. Also the guide seemed like an obvious "interface" with the setting.

Anyway I dropped the guide in this version, players are able to use PC abilities to write the kind of scenes they want to get into, rather than using the guide to take them there. I liked the guide idea, but a human guide is limited in the kinds of situations they can lead you into (like what people will be at a place at a certain time), which clashes with my desire that the players be able to explore any avenue they want.

Quote from: MarcoI think to be said to have explored something one must have learned something about it. Often this is "we learned what was in the dungeon." Sometimes this could be "we learned what the Illuminati was really up to." Or even "I learned what it was like to be an alien."

In this case, I didn't learn so much about the *city* (which seemed pretty generic. I learned there were docks and a watch) as I did about the culture's impact on situation (the guy who runs the wrong way).

Again, I'm sorry for the delay in replying, thanks for your comments Marco.

Yeah you're right, I agree completely. It ended up something different from what I'd hoped. As soon as I have the PCs bringing something interesting to the table (their culture's behaviors and traditions and the way these clash with the city's) it moves right away from exploration of setting.

My current version rips out all the PC background but still has facts about the city underlying the GMs narration of scenes. PCs have abilities that can be used to change the aspects of setting that are present in a GM created scene, and can roll dice to try and change the GM selected fact underlying a scene. All the interesting stuff for exploring is locked up in setting, on the GM's side of the table.

Setting Up
a) The GM creates an imaginary setting, recording important aspects of it as Facts.

b) The GM describes enough aspects of the setting to the players to allow them to create a character who while a stranger to the setting, would have reason to visit it. This reason should be recorded as the player-character’s mission.

c) The GM creates character abilities that allow the players to impact characters and locations within the setting. All players have access to all these abilities through their characters.

Playing the game
d) Once play begins, the GM takes turns to narrate separate scenes with each player at the table.

e) Before a scene begins the GM should describe its features in terms of characters, location, and time. The player can use character abilities to add, remove, or replace features of the scene. When using character abilities, the player should narrate the processes involved in using those abilities within the game-world. The scene does not begin until the player is finished altering it in this way.

f) The GM awards the player 1-3 six sided dice based on the player’s level of description in narrating their character’s abilities, and attempts to enter into the spirit of the setting.

g) The GM secretly chooses a Fact for this scene.

h) The GM starts to narrate the scene and the situations that might arise from this particular combination of characters, location and time. The GM should ensure that their narration “proves” the fact they have selected for this scene, focusing player attention upon it. The player reserves the right to narrate for the activities of their own character within the scene.

i) Any time the player feels that their mission has been complicated they may elect to roll their dice. First the GM reveals the Fact for this scene. If the complication can be attributed to the Fact then the player may roll their dice. If the complication is clearly not arising from the Fact then play continues as normal. Any dice that rolls 1, 2, or 3, earns that many successes. Any dice that rolls 4, 5, or 6, is ignored. Depending on the number of successes rolled, the player will have different options available to them. All dice rolled are removed from the player’s pool. If the player chooses an option that required less successes than the number rolled, then the player receives the difference in dice added to their pool.

j)

Number of successes needed for each Player Option:

1 Switch scene’s current fact with GM’s choice of existing facts.
2 Switch scene’s current fact with own choice of existing facts.
3 Switch scene’s current fact with new fact of GM’s invention.
4 Switch scene’s current fact with new fact of own invention.
5 Destroy scene’s current fact, replace with GM’s choice of existing facts.
6 Destroy scene’s current fact, replace with own choice of existing facts.
7 Destroy scene’s current fact, replace with new fact of GM’s invention
8 Destroy scene’s current fact, replace with new fact of own invention[/list:u]

k) The player may ask to end the scene at any time. They retain any dice in their dice pool for use in future scenes. The GM starts a scene for the next player.

l) Play ceases once all players have completed their missions.