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I'm curious if anyone has any thoughts on the application of RPG Theory to horror gaming.  I can't seem to find anything with the search function of the forum.  I've read lots of stuff on "how" to do it.  What I'm interested in is a discussion of the relationship between fear present in the player and fear in the character, how horror gaming fits with different creative agendas and the like.  While I do have some experience with GMing and playing in the horror genre and I've read the articles here on the forge, when it comes to formulating cohesive thought on the subject, I don't know where to begin.  I'm looking for links to articles, insights that people might have and a good place to start a discussion.

Here's what I have so far: The relationship between scaring the player and scaring the character is a matter of social contract.  Horror gaming may or may not work well with games that give the players a lot of "plot control."  Other than, that I don't have a clue what to think or say on the matter.  A little help?

Nathan

Quote from: Mad-Eye MoodyI'm curious if anyone has any thoughts on the application of RPG Theory to horror gaming.  

I think seminal texts for this discussion, the must-reads, are Ken Hite's Nightmares of Mine (ICE) which you can easily find on the net, and GURPS Horror 3e which has many of the same material updated and presented with some new material.

Don't let the fact that one of these books is published by ICE(home of Rolemaster) and SJGames confuse you. They both are chock full of excellent advice and discussions of creative agendas (Nightmare doesn't even have any Rolemaster material in it really).

Jere

I know little on the subject, but have some thoughts, as I eventually want to make the same.

Actually, I think plot control is more important in these games. The real objective is to convince the players that it was their mistake that lead them to the sudden wrath on them. The problem is finding a happy medium between what they feel could someday be reality, and what's way beyond the norm. The player is also kept incredibly ignorant and has to fight just for information about what the hell is happening. It's not like a millieu: "Sauron's forces are building." In fact, a good part of the first session could even be a very delightful scenario that tries to make the player very comfortable in a sanctuary. Get them really attached and trusting, and then betray them.

Here's my ideal possible elements . . .

ALIENS: Who knows where they came from. Not necessarily a planet, or even a galaxy. Their reasons have to be very . . . well: alien. And plausible to the concept. For example: Scientists say an alien invasion is quite ridiculous because a species with the technology to invade will find nothing for resources on a planet. Energy should be what they're after which is normally with the usage of black holes or in stars. If they want something with you, there'd better be something that makes you pretty damn special. Something you probably didn't know about.

As I understand it, the most likely alien invasion would not actually let us see the creatures for a great deal of time. They would try to control from afar, manipulating our technology. They would use similar political games like giving us false hopes and trusts. If we were of any use to them, they would obviously try to "assimilate" us, but they likely wouldn't give a damn about our bodies themselves.

EXPERIMENTS GONE WRONG: Try not to make the players something prepared like a soldier. Perhaps a scientist that helps developed the project? Somewhere along the line, make members of your own party betray you ruthlessly. It's a metaphore in the fact that it was your people that brought this upon yourselves. And it's your people that it's manipulating to become destructive. Naturally we're looking at a lot of butt-ugly humans and maybe animals. Maybe even loved ones made victim. A son / daughter?

DEMONS: The word "demons" might not give the right image. There's "something." Perhaps along the lines of Stephen King's "IT." The theme involves a great deal to do with children's aspects. Dolls, music boxes. I guess because we're all deep down afraid to be defenseless like a child. The key is not to "spook" though. You need to work hard to make the player comfortable. To establish some sort of trust, a very close bond. And then rip it from them like the biggest asshole on the planet. :)

Try to make it sway, also, that the beings really hate the characters. Don't just make it "dangerous" or apocalyptic. There needs that level of actual hatred. That it's something personal, and their happiness has to be fought for. Ironic to the fact it's all for fun. Force them to not be able to do what a person really needs to do, like sleep or starve for food. Give them important people to worry about: Cherished loved ones that seem to slip from their protection. Persuade players and characters offer promises that they're not sure they can keep (persuade in the game sense, not your own lips).

I speak from no experience, but who knows.

I do have an article on the subject of horror gaming: http://www.gamingoutpost.com/GL/index.cfm?action=ShowProduct&CategoryID=54411&ProductID=68903&publisherid=54849">Game Ideas Unlimited: Control. It's in the subscriber section of Gaming Outpost, and although we've begun posting the series to the http://www.valdron.com/gameidea/">Valdron site, it will be a while before we reach this one, at one per week.

Quote from: In that article, IAs my musings came back to that which frightens us, I realized that the universal factor behind fear is lack of control.  Fear exists within us to the degree that we perceive a lack of control.  As long as we believe everything is under control, we are calm and unafraid.  If we can no longer control what is happening, fear overtakes us.

There is a second aspect to this which I had to recognize before I fully understood it.  That second aspect is that there must be something at stake, something which matters or has value to us.  There are many things which are completely beyond our control which don't impact us at all, because we have nothing at stake.

The article from there talks about the responses people make to the threat of loss of control, and how the referee can undermine these in play.

But as I read this thread, my mind is taking a step back from it. It occurs to me that there are perhaps three distinct kinds of fear. For the moment, I'll dub them[list=1][*]Creepy fear,[*]Startle fear, and[*]Desperation fear.[/list:o]
Creepy fear is that stuff that makes your skin crawl when things are spooky. It's an internal nervousness. Sometimes it comes from thinking something is going to happen; sometimes it comes merely from atmosphere.

Startle fear is what happens when your kid suddenly jumps out from behind the door, shouts boo, and then asks, did I scare you? I always tell my eleven-year-old that he didn't scare me, but he did startle me. Startle fear is also that punchline that hits us when someone shouts at the end of a quiet creepy story, or when the killer jumps out from behind the curtain in the movie. It is the suddenness that gets to us.

Desperation fear is the sort discussed in the article, the idea that there is something you value that you don't want to lose and there's no way you can stop that from happening.

I suspect that to do a good game, you need a lot of the first and third, but at least a little of the second.

This of course assumes you want the players to be frightened. Most horror games of which I've heard (I have not played many) are considered good if the players are frightened, or at least edgy. It's like a horror movie. If you're sitting in the back laughing all the way through, it's not a good horror movie. But I think it's within the realm of reason to play a game in which the story contains horror elements and the outcome is terrible, but no one is ever really frightened of anything. It's more an exploration of story sort of thing, without the mood. I'm not sure how popular that would be. On the other hand, Squeam is supposed to be great fun--a horror setting turned into a comic game.

So the question is, is it a horror game if people aren't frightened? Do Little Shop of Horrors and The Rocky Horror Picture Show (the only two horror musical comedies I know) actually frighten anyone, or are all those horror trappings merely staging for something that is not horror? Does the audience have to be scared for it to be good horror?

I thought Dracula was an excellent book; I did not find it frightening. I don't think that's necessarily the answer to the question.

--M. J. Young

Quote from: Mad-Eye MoodyHere's what I have so far: The relationship between scaring the player and scaring the character is a matter of social contract.  Horror gaming may or may not work well with games that give the players a lot of "plot control."  

I suppose it depends how the plot control manifests itself. Also the horror genre itself isn't particularly characterised by an attempt to frighten the audience. They often do, but then so do many other kinds of films. Is 'Saving Private Ryan' a horror film? Most people would say no, it's a war film, but it has scenes that are frightening, even horrifying.

Horror films in general are characterised more by their use of the supernatural than they are of being scary. Sure, slash and splatterpunk films concentrate on visceral violence to shack and scare, but as I've said, other genres can do the same without being horror films, so that can't be a definitive characteristic.

Horror stories work by undermining our understanding of how the world works. They aim to subvert our assumptions about how the world works by violating our understanding what is and isn't possible. They show us the frailty, and ultimately the illusory nature of our basic view of the world.

Horror roleplaying games should realy aim to do this too, but they often fail. Call of Cthulhu is a great game which I love, but it is rarely run or played without a very knowing attitude to the mythos background. Too many of us have read the stories, or at least the rulebook and so already know the horrors that lurk beyond the fringes of the mundane world in that setting. In a game where anyone can look up the stats for Cthulhu, or whatever, where is the subversion? It's a tricky problem.


Simon Hibbs