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Tens of thousands of years in the future, mankind has developed a thriving civilization which sprawls across space. This civilization is almost entirely consumed by an event known as the Holocaust: most of human space goes up in a blaze of fusion reactions. The few survivors face an expanding wave of destruction. They are saved by the Prophets, madmen gifted with visions of a Redeemer. The Redeemer tells men that they are being assailed by a race of hyperdimensional entities harvesting realspace for energy. These entities are aware of but unconcerned about the fate which awaits mankind. However, the Redeemer promises to save the remaining men and to end the threat posed by the hyperdimensional "demons."

The Prophets lead their fellow men on an Exodus to hitherto unexplored regions of realspace. Through some miraculous power the Redeemer largely halts the activites of the demons, thus sparing the rest of realspace from their predation.

The Prophets found a church dedicated to preserving the teachings of the Redeemer. This church forms the nucleus of human society in the wake of the collapse of the civilization of the Ancients. Eventually, the human settelements where the church is active are united in a single empire called the Dominion of the Redeemer. The Dominion is ruled by a line of military strong men known as the emperors.

This situation continues for several centuries. Eventually, the peace of the emperor is broken by a heretical movement from within the church. The heretics, who call themselves the Exalted Ones, believe that the church has adopted too legalistic an interpretation of the teachings of the Redeemer, and that the church is too bound up in politics and other worldly affairs, and not concerned enough with releaving human souls from bondage to corporeal desire.

The church convinces the emperor to send polic forces in to disrupt the heretical movement. They fear that the heretics will destroy the religious communion of man. They fear the very same schism and war which they help instigate. The heretics, for their part, first threaten violence to protect their religious freedom. They then resort to violence (terrorism using massive fusion bombs) in response to the police raids sent to disrupt their worship. Each side declares a holy war upon the other, and the Dominion is consumed by violence.

The schism reaches into the very heart of the rulership of the Dominion. The emperor's most trusted general fell in love with his favorite wife. They continued their affair in secret for many years. Then, the leader of the Exalted heresy converts them both to the new religion. While the general and the emperor's wife become ascetics and end their affair, they have devoted themselves to bringing down what they view as the oppressive apparatus of the state. The emperor, for his part, has sworn an unending vengeance against them both. This is despite the fact that his love for them endures. The demands of justice and the welfare of man trump any desire he might otherwise harbor to be merciful to his bosom companion and to his beloved wife. He still sends letters to the latter expressing his undying love, though he also expresses his firm intention to kill her.

. . . .

This is only a vague sketch of the setting, obviously (more to follow). At this point, I intend only to use it for my own games and stories, and eventually to web-publish it at some point. Do you think it is too close to such sf settings as Fading Suns? I'm not really into FS, yet I fear that the Dominion setting is too close to it to be original. (If so, bummer.)

Rexfelis

Welcome to the Forge, Reflexis.

You should really read the stickies at the top of the fora.  As you say, this is really just setting, and amounts to fiction at this point rather than a game -- you should really wait and post once you've started developping.  

That said, (and assuming you're going to start designging a game right now) a reasonable starting point would be to ask, given this setting, what aspects do you want to emphasize in the game itself?  Will the players control key figures during the time of the Prophet?  Or be his followers in the future?  How does this history impact the mechanics and how you see the game being played (tone, theme, etc.)?

Quote from: JasperWelcome to the Forge, Reflexis.

You should really read the stickies at the top of the fora.  As you say, this is really just setting, and amounts to fiction at this point rather than a game -- you should really wait and post once you've started developping.

Whoops.

QuoteThat said, (and assuming you're going to start designging a game right now) a reasonable starting point would be to ask, given this setting, what aspects do you want to emphasize in the game itself?  Will the players control key figures during the time of the Prophet?  Or be his followers in the future?  How does this history impact the mechanics and how you see the game being played (tone, theme, etc.)?

The game focuses on making choices when the situation is ethically muddled, when values conflict. Ostensibly, it will be the values of the characters which come into conflict with one another, but the goal is to hook the players into these conflicts as well.

The player characters will choose which side of the jihad they want to support. They will then be placed in trying situations where there is no obvious right answer. How much violence are we willing to use to defend our point of view? Do I choose loyalty to family or loyalty to my feudal lord? Do I choose loyalty to religion over either of these? To what extent should I cooperate with my enemy when a common threat emerges (such as the "demons," or else mundane threats such as bandits, warlords, criminal gangs, rogue AIs, or hostile humans or post-humans from worlds outside the Dominion)?

This is the primary focus of the game. A lesser, secondary focus is that of sci-fi simulationism. I do not want the sim side to steal the focus of the game. I do want it to be there, in modest (if rather abstract) form. I want the players to have to think about some of the "real life" constraints facing their characters. Will this weapon automatically kill the hostage or just put the fear of God in him? How long does it take to get to planet Alpha using spaceship Omega? Will this rogue AI be able to make a hyperdimensional jump faster than the AI running our ship? And so on. However, I am serious that I don't want this to steal the focus of the game. I am willing to make heavy sim sacrifices when needed.

I am thinking of using the passions rule from Pendragon (or something like it) to help measure and simulate the values of the characters. I may also use the Pendragon rule for personality traits, but I'm not sure if I need to. It may be enough to model everything as passions.

I may base the ability system on that of Sorcerer. This is tricky, since I have not yet read the game. I've looked at the free .pdf, though, and am currently waiting for the full game to arrive on my doorstep (along with Sorcerer and Sword).  

Rexfelis

Other ideas for the game:

PCs are members of one of three social classes: patricians, clergymen, or plebeians. Patricians are the political and military rulers of the Dominion. Clergymen are priests of the Church of the Redeemer. There are many orders of priests, including monastic and mendicant orders. Plebeians are commoners, members of various professions (scientists, technicians, industrial managers, merchants, etc.).

The setting includes a fourth caste, that of the serfs (though PCs are presumably not of this caste). These are humans with very limited rights. They have some private property (unlike robotic servitors or golems) and can raise their own families (though all children are gen-gineered and born from mechanical wombs), but patricians have much power over their serfs. Patricians extract most of the value added from serfs' labor, and give the serfs a few scraps in return. This social system dates to the time of great social instability which followed the Holocaust, during which those with military power were able to extract concessions and sign one-sided contracts with those who lacked the power to defend themselves.

While the premise of the game is, "What are you willing to sacrifice for your goals?", the pretense of the game comes in several forms, as follows.

1. The PCs could be paladins (household guards) in service of the current emperor. This would involve them in palace intrigue as well as some rather grisly missions on behalf of his majesty (one of the heretics has just orchestrated a plot to kill millions of orthodox citizens; fortunately, he left his family in the capital, so go ahead and kidnap them and put the squeeze on them, so we can pressure the traitor to give himself up).

2. The PCs are retainers of a noble house. They go on a series of missions, Star Trek style (?), which involves patrolling the nobles' territory and exploring the border regions. Each week a new moral dilemma or unusual situation presents itself. Bandits, revolting serfs (how many are you willing to kill?), sentient computer viruses (do they offer a tasty bribe and a convincing ethical case to boot?), free-willed golems who refuse to pay tribute (or who seek an alliance), etc., etc.

3. The PCs are members of the Exalted sect and must protect a given settlement from interference by the orthodox. Complications ensue.

4. The PCs work for one of the cartels, associations of plebeians granted legal monopolies by the local patrician establishment. How far are they willing to go to police their legal prerogatives? Adventures can involve dealing with mafias, recalcitrant patricians or serfs, etc.

Rexfelis

Hi Rex,

The primary theme that you put forward for your game--making hard choices--is handled excellently in Jake Norwood's The Riddle of Steel. Although a fantasy game, has some great mechanics for dealing with choice (character element prioritization, deadly combat, and most of all Spiritual Attributes), and, like your game will be, is very Narrativist-promoting with Sim underpinnings. I suggest you give it a look-see; there's a QuikStart version available about halfway down the downloads page (preceeded by a bold yellow IMPORTANT!).

Your ideas sound really cool. I hope this project goes well.

Good luck,
--Jeff

Also, personally, I really, really hate to see people using the word "jihad" casually.  It's a very specific and meaningful word from a very specific context.  Using it as a general term for "holy war" is not accurate or respectful.  That's why the Vampire card game changed its name.

Quote from: Jonathan WaltonAlso, personally, I really, really hate to see people using the word "jihad" casually.  It's a very specific and meaningful word from a very specific context.  Using it as a general term for "holy war" is not accurate or respectful.  That's why the Vampire card game changed its name.

You assume too much. I do not think I am using the word casually. My choice of the word is based on some reading I have done in Sufism. In the game, the obvious jihad is the one being waged between the orthodoxists and the heretics. This corresponds to the "lesser jihad" in Sufi mysticism. The "greater jihad" is that being waged within each of the character's souls. I chose the word "jihad" very deliberately. I am upset that you have taken such umbrage based on your own baseless assumption.

This is a dimension of the setting which I wish to expand upon. The Exalted heresy will correspond in some respects to the Sufi movement within Islam, while the orthodox Church will corrsepond in some respects to the legalists. The correspondence will of course not be perfect, but I am planning on drawing upon the legacy of Islam to enrich the setting.

Incidentally, the Dominion setting is also partially inspired by Jewish mysticism. For example, the concept of the material universe as the "dominion" of God is drawn from the kabbalist concept of kether (lit. "crown").

Rexfelis

Quote from: JephHi Rex,

The primary theme that you put forward for your game--making hard choices--is handled excellently in Jake Norwood's The Riddle of Steel. Although a fantasy game, has some great mechanics for dealing with choice (character element prioritization, deadly combat, and most of all Spiritual Attributes), and, like your game will be, is very Narrativist-promoting with Sim underpinnings. I suggest you give it a look-see; there's a QuikStart version available about halfway down the downloads page (preceeded by a bold yellow IMPORTANT!).

Your ideas sound really cool. I hope this project goes well.

Good luck,
--Jeff

Thanks for your suggestion. I think I will finally break down and buy TROS. Based on what I have read about it so far on this and other forums, your recommendation seems apt. TROS's spiritual attributes might be a perfect fit for Dominion.

However, my current understanding of TROS is that the combat system is fairly complex. I would lke to keep combat more abstract (though, perhaps, not quite as abtract as in Sorcerer, so I have some decisions to make).

Rexfelis

I probably should have asked more particular questions to help focus discussion. Sorry. Here goes:

I don't know what to do for the magic system. I want magic to work like any other ability. Roll a certain number of dice based on how skilled you are. Either the GM rolls a certain number of opposition dice, or there is a set number which must be rolled on a die for success (I'm thinking, roll the relevant number of 6-siders, and if you get a 1, that's a success), or both.

Now, there will be some "diabolists" or what-not who traffic with demons. These "demons" are just a species of intelligent creatures who happen to exist on more than 4 dimensions, and so can do things that 4-dimensional humans cannot. I am strongly considering basing the rules for these folks on Sorcerer.

However, the PCs will not be diabolists. Rather, the only type of "magic" they would use is the miracles performed in the name of the Redeemer. Miracles are supposed to be quite rare in the setting, but the PCs are special folks, so it's ok if they have a miracle-worker in their midst. I am quite certain that the ability to perform miracles will be tightly correlated with how well one has embodied the precepts of the Redeemer--how well one has fared in the "greater jihad" of the soul. Gratifying the desires of the nafs ("self" or "ego") takes one further from the approval of the Redeemer, while subsuming the desires of the nafs into a burning love for the One earns the approval of the Redeemer. [Theological note: the One and the Redeemer are not necessarily the same. The Redeemer is kind of like Christ and the One is kind of like Jehovah, but only on an Arian or Unitarian interpretation.]

A novel approach to miracles I am considering: characters have a Piety stat (or somesuch) which is a measure of their sanctity. But, the player does not choose the manner or the occasion of the miracle. Instead, the GM determines if the Redeemer sees fit to grant a miracle when a PC is in great need. The PC can ask for a miracle, and it may be granted, but a miracle can also happen spontaneously based on the judgment of the Redeemer (as determined by the GM, based in part on the relevant characters' Piety).

Rexfelis

DOMINION magic

1. Divine Magic

There are two types of divinely-granted "magical powers" which can be used by PCs in DOMINION: rituals and miracles. Rituals are performed by specially trained priests with the help of a "holy item" (actually a hyperdimensional transmitter which sends a signal to the Redeemer or to one of his flunkies [the angels] when it is manipulated in a certain way). Rituals can include sanctification rituals, blessings, exorcisms, angelic summonings, and the like. A character can only perform a ritual if he has received the proper training and if his Sin score is sufficiently low.

Sin is a stat that every character has; it is the sum of 5 or so separate sin stat's: Lust, Wraith, Gluttony, Avarice, and Pride. The Sin stat is an indication of how well the characters is doing in the greater jihad, in the "jihad al nafs."

I intend the sin stat's to function in a similar manner to the Personality Traits in Pendragon, except that they have no corresponding "virtue" stat's. (The virtue stat's would seem to be redundant.)

The second type of divine magic is miracles. Miracles can be prayed for in an informal fashion or can be granted spontaneously at the Redeemer's behest (perhaps through one of his angelic servitors). There is no training required to perform a miracle, but the character's Sin stat must usually be exceptionally low for the miracle to have any chance of being performed. (Occasionally, however, the Redeemer may choose to work a miracle through a sinful vessel.) When a character's Sin stat reaches the required minimum for a miracle, the GM may inform the player of this by a vision or dream from the Redeemer or one of his errand-boys.

2. Black Magic

Like divine magic, black magic comes in two forms: rituals and favors. A character can perform a black magic ritual by manipulating a demon's fetish in the correct manner. A favor is usually granted as the result of a bargaining session between a character and a demon he has already contacted through the appropriate ritual.

In order to perform a black magic ritual or to receive a demonic favor, a character must have a certain minimum Sin score. Keeping up one's Sin scores may require risky behavior.

3. The "Color" of Magic

The performance of rituals, miracles, and favors is often accompanied by demonic or angelic manifestations. Demons and angels manifest themselves in a variety of ways, perhaps depending upon the "angle" from hyperspace in which they are viewed at a given point in realspace. Each demon or angle has a set of characteristic manifestations; the GM may choose from this set to determine the manifestation at any given performace of a ritual, miracle, or favor. (Note: each divine ritual or miracle is associated with one of the angels of the Redeemer or the Redeemer himself, just as each black magic ritual or favor is associated with a particular demon.)

Sample manifestations include: the color red; the sound of chimes; the smell of musk, ash, and roses; a circular rainbow; flashing lights; darkness; wisps of grey; etc.  

4. The Scope of Magic

Magic is not a set of generic powers. Most ability enhancements can be accomplished relatively cheaply and easily through technology. Magic is used for those specific applications that cannot be performed sufficiently cheaply using the prevailing technology of the Dominion, but which can be performed sufficiently easily by the hyper-dimensional angels and demons. And, the latter only perform the acts of magic when it is in line with their goals (spare mankind and foster mystic union with the One vs. spite the Redeemer and foster self-centered thought and action).

A related issue which I haven't decided yet: magic may be required for faster than light travel. The Exodus from the devastated sections of realspace may have only been possible as a result of rituals performed by the Redeemer's vessels. A sub-set of the priestly class known as "seers" may be responsible for all ftl travel by humans in the Dominion.

5. Machines and Magic

I think I want certain sorts of machines to be able to perform rituals (and, perhaps, to be the focus of miracles). There is no reason in principle why a machine could not be created to contact and petition an angel or demon in the same way that a human could. The machine might require sentient AI to analyze the situation and determine whether or not divine magic is both appropriate and likely to be performed. (If a machine keeps on requesting divine magic at inappropriate times, eventuallythe angels will just start ignoring it.)

Magic-using characters might also be trans-humans. These could include sentient AIs and "ordinary" humans who were at some point uploaded into a computer. They can manipulate holy items or fetishes or pray for a given miracle, just like their "meat machine" (conventional human) counterparts.

Rexfelis

Quote from: RexfelisI am upset that you have taken such umbrage based on your own baseless assumption.

For the record, I now feel that the above post was an over-reaction to Jonathan's post. I can see why he might have thought that I was mis-using the word "jihad." After all, I had given no explanation for why the word "jihad" was being used in the Dominion game. When I first read his post, I was already upset about something else, so I vented.

Rexfelis