The Forge Archives

After a snafu with rpgnow, I'm wondering what the proper method for selling my .html RPG would be. I've basically abandoned all hope for profit, which sounds perfectly suited for selling by shareware. :)

Anybody have experience with this?

--Pal

As I recall, the first iteration of Sorcerer was essentially shareware.  It seems to have worked pretty well for Ron, but he may have additional insight for you.

Seth Ben-Ezra
Great Wolf

Hello,

Back in 1996, I began publishing Sorcerer as shareware. You could fill out a field on my little one-page website, which sent me an email, and I sent you a TXT copy of the game, and my mailing address. You could send me $5 if you like.

Today, I think that the strategy is probably obsolete. Back then, there was no Paypal, there was no nothing. Even getting the ability to handle credit card transactions meant laying out a $300 deposit. It's a whole different world now, with money zipping back and forth across the internet a mile a minute.

I think you should consider one of the following:

1. A donation button on your site, which unfortunately doesn't seem to be quite as rewarding as we'd hoped here at the Forge (I'm talking about game publishing, not about donating to the Forge).

2. Simply selling your game. You could provide it through the Forge Bookshelf, or just fulfil it yourself through a hidden download page or by email. Put up a Paypal button and just ... sell it yourself.

Best,
Ron

Forgotten Futures was (is?) shareware, although I think it's mainly free download or buy a CD. except that the download page appears to be broken.

I should get the CD at some point, although money's tight now. it has lots of good Edwardian/Victorian literature as etext.

I wonder whether you could adopt something akin to a 'crippleware' approach, although less ugly, by offering the HTML version for free over the internet, and then charging for .pdf (or print) versions? Let's be honest here, how many people pay for shareware software if you get nothing for it? After you've given your game away for free, who's going to pay for what you've already given them?

Quote from: Jack AidleyLet's be honest here, how many people pay for shareware software if you get nothing for it?

I do.  Often.  In fact, I hold myself strictly to a fuzzy standard.  I feel free to pirate software as much as I want in order to tinker with it or play a bit or determine if I want it.  But if I want it, I pay for it.  Shareware or retailware, it doesn't matter.  The only thing I wish were realyl different is that there were some mechanism in place allowing me to pay different amounts.  That's usually not possible.  

Frankly, I think it's a shame that you would not.  And I'm glad to hear that it worked for Ron, contrary to your expressed attitude.

Chris

Hiya,

It did indeed work for me. Part of understanding that, though, is that "worked" simply means that some people did send in some money. My monetary expenses were absolutely minimal, so the sent-in money was all profit - which means it "worked."

But if by "worked" someone is thinking in terms of how much they'd have to make before considering the approach successful, well, that's a different story. I didn't make a lot of money by any stretch of the imagination.

What matters is that it established me as a commercial participant in the hobby, developed an extremely loyal player base, and set of professional relationships with folks like artists, zine editors, and layout people.

Best,
Ron

Jack Aidley wrote:

QuoteI wonder whether you could adopt something akin to a 'crippleware' approach, although less ugly, by offering the HTML version for free over the internet, and then charging for .pdf (or print) versions?

That's not a bad idea, but I don't have the resources to create a .PDF version right now, and probably won't until next year.

Ron Edwards wrote:

QuoteI think you should consider one of the following:

1. A donation button on your site, which unfortunately doesn't seem to be quite as rewarding as we'd hoped here at the Forge (I'm talking about game publishing, not about donating to the Forge).

2. Simply selling your game. You could provide it through the Forge Bookshelf, or just fulfil it yourself through a hidden download page or by email. Put up a Paypal button and just ... sell it yourself.

I suppose I'll be going with option number 2. I can't seem to find the Forge Bookshelf on the site, and I have no idea how to code a download page, so I'll probably go with email. I wonder though, does selling an RPG by email ever get 'too hectic' in terms of requests?

Hiya,

Talk to Clinton about the Forge Bookshelf or any of the many other options. He's very helpful.

Best,
Ron

Neverwhere was put out shareware and has been downloaded or traded thousands of time.

Not a single, not one donation.

Not one.

Sell it.

Quote from: Palaskar
That's not a bad idea, but I don't have the resources to create a .PDF version right now, and probably won't until next year.

I suppose I'll be going with option number 2. I can't seem to find the Forge Bookshelf on the site, and I have no idea how to code a download page, so I'll probably go with email. I wonder though, does selling an RPG by email ever get 'too hectic' in terms of requests?

First, getting a basic PDF might be easier than you think.  Take a look at http://www.pdf995.com/ for instance.  It's free.  I haven't used it myself, but I'm told it's a very good product.

Second, mailing lists and auto-responders are your friends.  They're easier than you might think to setup and even easier to maintain.

Third, check out PayPal.  They can actually do most of the setup work for you, right on their website.  Then you can just make a simple page that their "buy now" button links to that has a download link on it.  It's no harder than setting up a page with any other kind of link.  http://www.webmonkey.com has all the basics you could need on webdesign.

Fourth, just because I like numbered lists, go for it.  With minimal additional time and effort you can be a small business.  Small businesses are what make this country great, in my opinion.  I heartily encourage anyone to make that effort if they dare.  

Thanks,
Jim

Welcome to the Forge, Jim! As I'm sure you've surmised, judging from your post, you've definitely found friends here.

Best,
Ron

GRIM,

None? Grud, even in my cynicism I never though it'd be that bad. Sorry to hear that.

Re: Making .pdfs, I had a lot of success using OpenOffice - it's export-as-pdf function seems to work pretty well (no index though) - and it's free. Don't feel you need resources to make .pdfs.

Quote from: Ron EdwardsWelcome to the Forge, Jim! As I'm sure you've surmised, judging from your post, you've definitely found friends here.

Best,
Ron

Thanks.  Sorcerer and Adept Press are, of course, what brought me here.  I've actually been before, but never signed up for an account.  I'm sure I'll end up lurking quite a bit, but I'm primarily a tech geek, so I'm sure I'll be able to offer the odd bit of tech geek advice!

I see you're from Chicago, BTW.  I'm originally from the North Suburbs myself.  Small world....

Cheers!
Jim

Ok, I've started selling Signature by a Paypal link on my website. A few questions:

How the heck do I sell an .html file download by Paypal? Right now, I'm having people email me (no emails yet.) I'd like to be able to sell downloads directly like RPGnow, but I can't find any advice how to do it on the Paypal site.

Ron, I emailed Clinton awhile back, but still I've gotten no reply. Has he been busy, or was there some sort of techical problem on my end? (Sometimes my Mac crashes.)

Is there any .pdf conversion software that if either free or very cheap that I could use on my G3 Mac running Mac OS 9.1?

Thanks for any replies.