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General Forge Forums => Site Discussion => Topic started by: eyebeams on April 16, 2004, 10:57:24 PM

Title: Indie or not?
Post by: eyebeams on April 16, 2004, 10:57:24 PM
Heya folks,

I'm interested in posting about a game I'm designing, but I'm not sure it would be considered "Indie" by this board. Why?

1) I'm not publishing it.

2) It will use the OGL as a base to work from.

So no go -- that would be a no brainer, right? However:

3) I'll be getting this game published under Wildside LLC's creator owned imprint. This game (Dominion; there are press releases around about it but I don't want to sound like I'm hawking it) is owned by me and will remain owned by me, unless somebody pays me a lot of money indeed (like, enough to pay some delinquent student loans).

4) I'm going to be the sole author and designer.

So, is a creator-owned project published by someone else indie enough to post about, or what?

Title: Indie or not?
Post by: Matt Machell on April 17, 2004, 06:04:52 AM
Well, can't speak for the site in general, but the creator ownership and control imply indie to me...

The last time a discussion like this came up, the question was asked back: Does it feel Indie to you? If it does, then stick around until it doesn't feel indie anymore.


Title: Indie or not?
Post by: greyorm on April 17, 2004, 06:12:16 AM
Sounds Indie to me. Discussions around here have indicated that the use of the OGL and D20 licenses do not mean a product is not Indie. As long as you're the person who creates and controls it, it's Indie. If someone else can say, "Nope, sorry, you can't change that," it isn't.

Now, I don't know enough about Wildside LLC, so I can't say if that breaks the camel or not. You're publishing through them, but do they control whether or not the product is printed? Do they get to say what material is actually printed in the end? Can they decide to (re)publish it without your wanting to? If the answer's "no" to those, then everything sounds kosher. It's indie.

Here's a couple of other threads that deal with the definition:
d20 D&D supplements: Are they "Indie supplements" (
Discussion of the term 'independent' (
What games do you think are borderline Indy games? (

Title: Indie or not?
Post by: Jack Spencer Jr on April 17, 2004, 07:05:41 AM
I think that it is neither here nor there about whether a game is an according to hoyle indie game, whatever the hell that means and whoever the hell you ask about it.

I guess it matters insofar as you are free to discuss the design here or if NDA's you had signed with the actual author would keep you from doing so.

The forum is Indie Game Design. I think it's more important for the post here to be about game design than worrying about whether it's "Indie" or not. We can help and learn from the design either way, can't we?

Title: Indie or not?
Post by: Ron Edwards on April 18, 2004, 06:40:08 AM

I'm shifting this to Site Discussion, where it belongs.

Malcolm, the definition of "independent" is pretty fixed here.

1. OGL or not OGL, or for that matter, d20 or not d20, is entirely irrelevant.

2. Ownership is defined as final authority over content, development, and finances. Small groups of people are permitted, in addition to one-person shows.

"Indie" as a content-based description is irrelevant as well.

So taking it from there, at the Forge, the term "published by someone else using their creator-owned imprint" is not actually independent. The nuances of IP "ownership" aren't really the issue, or rather, they're fallout from the more basic concern. Contact me if you have any questions.