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General Forge Forums => Site Discussion => Topic started by: AdAstraGames on January 07, 2007, 10:40:45 AM



Title: Finding the Big Model
Post by: AdAstraGames on January 07, 2007, 10:40:45 AM
Ron, I'm afraid I've gotten lost trying to find the final state of the Big Model.

I've read the Glossary, I've looked at the PDF linked from the Glossary, and I've seen references to an article called "The Big Model, this is it", but cannot actually find that article referenced.

I don't doubt that I'll smack myself upside the head when you point to where that link is, but for the life of me, I can't find it in Articles at the moment.


Title: Re: Finding the Big Model
Post by: Ron Edwards on January 07, 2007, 10:53:10 AM
Hi there,

I usually point to the first page of the Glossary (outlining the seven terms) and the associated diagram. The trouble with the Glossary is that a number of the minor terms have been revised or abandoned or clarified, and that (inevitably) I've decided several of those entries are badly defined/phrased or mistakenly referenced. It was Provisional, after all ...

But that first page and the basic Big Model stuff, before the long list of terms definition, is pretty solid as far as I'm concerned. Discussions over the last two years, including great summaries by Vincent Baker, Ben Lehman, and Chris Chinn, and refinements of Social Contract (Meg's work, my recent stuff on authority and leadership), certainly clarify and enrich what's there, but no substantive disagreement with that presentation has arisen, as I see it.

If you have any questions, please let me know, by email if you'd like.

It just so happens that one guy at the Forge is setting up an incredible off-site summary and referenced update to the Big Model which I think will serve as the reference in ages to come.

Best, Ron


Title: Re: Finding the Big Model
Post by: Ricky Donato on January 07, 2007, 10:56:11 AM
The original article "The whole model - this is it" was posted as a thread rather than as a page in the Articles sections. You can find it here: http://www.indie-rpgs.com/forum/index.php?topic=8655.0

For further discussion of the Big Model, I recommend the links posted in this thread: http://www.indie-rpgs.com/forum/index.php?topic=17828.0

Quote
It just so happens that one guy at the Forge is setting up an incredible off-site summary and referenced update to the Big Model which I think will serve as the reference in ages to come.

Ron, has this been placed online yet? If so, do you have a link?


Title: Re: Finding the Big Model
Post by: Ron Edwards on January 07, 2007, 01:00:13 PM
The off-site reference is still under construction. It's coming along really well, and when the author's ready, he'll let us all know.

The problem with "The Big Model - this is it" is that a few pieces were still sticky. I was still trying to conceive of Creative Agenda as a level rather than as an arrow. Only when I stopped thinking of it as an "onion layer" that was somehow associated with the onion skewer, and recognizing that it's actually the skewer, did the whole thing really start working. So that thread might be seen as the last-but-one phase in my thinking about it.

Best, Ron


Title: Re: Finding the Big Model
Post by: AdAstraGames on January 07, 2007, 03:41:19 PM
My difficulty in finding it is actually editorial.

It's referred to as The Big Model, this is it in the Glossary.

However, searching for that string doesn't pull up the thread, because the thread title is "The whole model, this is it."

Hard to find when you're searching on the evolved term, rather than the term that's being used for the title. :)

Thanks for the link.  It's interesting reading, even if I find I have to backtrack about three layers back to find the context for certain things.

Looking forward to the off-site essay posting.


Title: Re: Finding the Big Model
Post by: Thunder_God on January 13, 2007, 02:35:14 AM
Ron, do you have links for Meg's refinement on the Social Contract bit?


Title: Re: Finding the Big Model
Post by: jrs on January 13, 2007, 07:14:21 AM
I expect he is refering to Meg's statement, "I will not abandon you does not equal nobody gets hurt."  Described at More Alphabet Soup (http://www.fairgame-rpgs.com/comment.php?entry=32) on Fair Game.

Julie


Title: Re: Finding the Big Model
Post by: Ron Edwards on January 13, 2007, 07:19:46 AM
Cross-posting:

I do!

Meg lays the foundation: Ritual and gaming/game design (http://www.indie-rpgs.com/forum/index.php?topic=16661.0)
Her concepts and terms: More alphabet soup (http://www.fairgame-rpgs.com/comment.php?entry=32)
An application that Meg confirms: Sex & Sorcery: re-reading it (http://www.indie-rpgs.com/forum/index.php?topic=19431.0)

Best, Ron