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Independent Game Forums => lumpley games => Topic started by: Mr Teufel on February 18, 2007, 03:31:27 AM



Title: Bene Gesserit - DitV for Dune?
Post by: Mr Teufel on February 18, 2007, 03:31:27 AM
Just throwing an idea in the pool. I haven't seen a Dune variant, and wondered if the Bene Gesserit would work?


Title: Re: Bene Gesserit - DitV for Dune?
Post by: James_Nostack on February 18, 2007, 03:00:09 PM
I don't know enough about the setting of Dune to say for sure.  But wasn't there the implication at the end of the first novel that the Fremen would use the spice to travel to other planets and spread the worship of Paul Muad'dib?  These wacky jihadis, jumping from world to world, solving problems by referring to the quotations of Paul, might be a good Dogs substite.  And the Bene Gesserit could be sorceresses.


Title: Re: Bene Gesserit - DitV for Dune?
Post by: xdiox on February 18, 2007, 08:44:05 PM
I don't know enough about the setting of Dune to say for sure.  But wasn't there the implication at the end of the first novel that the Fremen would use the spice to travel to other planets and spread the worship of Paul Muad'dib?  These wacky jihadis, jumping from world to world, solving problems by referring to the quotations of Paul, might be a good Dogs substite.  And the Bene Gesserit could be sorceresses.
Cool idea. Except that Muad'dib is a direct byproduct of Bene Gesserit efforts. Kind of like the if the King of Life was made by the demons.


Title: Re: Bene Gesserit - DitV for Dune?
Post by: James_Nostack on February 19, 2007, 07:43:10 AM
Does Paul accept their moral authority, though?  The impression I got at the end of the first novel is that, "Whoa, dudes, all the institutions in your messed up galactic society are going to have to listen to me now (and to a lesser extent my gang of worm-worshipping, drugged-out aborigines)--and that includes you, weirdo witches who tried to kill me on page 3."  Like, having a bunch of witches scheming to give birth to the Anti-Christ, and ending up giving birth to the real Messiah instead, seems amusingly blasphemous.

The King of Life, in DITV, seems to be a matter of function--i.e., it's a source of moral authority for the Dogs, but also something the players sympathize with. (The last part is vital, because part of the game is the players' horror at what their characters have done in the name of ideals both levels share.)  The incidental trappings & color probably don't matter so much as long as the function is preserved.  But I don't know, it's just armchair reading without having played the game :(


Title: Re: Bene Gesserit - DitV for Dune?
Post by: Minx on February 23, 2007, 06:40:14 AM
I think putting the focus on Paul (And the story of the books in general) is a bad move for a conversion. IMO, Dog-Mods seem to work better the closer they are to the original in theme.

Looking at the Dune Setting, I see two to three very Dogs-like groups in the setting.

First, traveling Bene Gesserit "enforcers" keeping an eye on the various sisters and the breeding programm in general, to ensure no treachery, slipped secrets or uncontrolled Kwisatz Haderach happen. Best set before the events of the Dune-Books, the "Towns" would be planets and royal households, while Demons would probably be some abstract force pushing the NPCs away from the influence of the B.G. and towards stuff like giving birth to the Kwisatz Haderach because you love your Duke. Basically, the "Dogs" job would be to keep the Status Quo and protect the B.G. influence and breeding programm,but it wouldn't be a very nice thing to play, IMO. (Nowhere near as objectionable as some other possible Dog-Mods, but not really NICE.)

The Second group could be CHOAM inspectors, again probably set in the time before the books, making sure that nobody fiddles with the profits or does stupid stuff like send nukes against other planets. Here, the Sin could be hording Spice, trading in forbidden technology or whatever might upset the profit. The feeling wouldprobably be more one of intrigue, crime and tax inspections then one of Sin and Religion, but I think it would work quite nicely. Demons would try to push people to become too greedy, to break the rules for your personal profit, ...

The third group would be wandering priest-types in the persiod AFTER Pauls Jihad, when the church has calcifid under Alias rule. This would probably be the one closest to regular Dogs, with the character visiting outposts and planets to spread doctrine, news and judgement among the followers of Shai-Hulud.

There are other groups that might work, like Bulterian Jihadis policing planets for thinking machines and forbidden technologies or Fishspeakers keeping check on the Golden Path, but the three mentioned above would probably be the easiest.

M


Title: Re: Bene Gesserit - DitV for Dune?
Post by: Transit on February 26, 2007, 02:33:26 PM
In the books, the Bene Gesserit had a sub-sect called the Missionaria Protectiva whose specific mission was to plant myths and superstitions into the religions of primitive people across the galaxy. 

The sisterhood used these universal myths to their advantage by being able to claim themselves as prophecy fulfilled on virtually any planet they visited.  (Jessica and Paul used this when they first found themselves captured by the Fremen.)

Maybe in this variant, the Dogs are Paul-Worshipers who are going around preaching the true faith while cleaning up the false religions spread by the Missionaria Protectiva?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bene_Gesserit#Missionaria_Protectiva


Title: Re: Bene Gesserit - DitV for Dune?
Post by: James_Nostack on February 28, 2007, 05:39:37 PM
Quote
I  think putting the focus on Paul (And the story of the books in general) is a bad move for a conversion. IMO, Dog-Mods seem to work better the closer they are to the original in theme.

I think these are interesting variants, but in (the relatively little) Dune stuff I know about, the Bene Gesserit and CHOAM are either outright or semi-villainous.  You would have to do some work to convince the players that not only are these people morally acceptable in theory, but actually morally admirable in practice.

The really important part of Dogs, from what I understand, is this: the players believe in the King of Life too, or at least the ethical ideals associated with Him.  And what happens over play is that the players grow increasingly horrified watching their own ethical ideals unfold in the realm of flawed mortals. 

DITV isn't just about any old guys wandering around with a mandate.  The Dogs aren't just cowboys or Old West bounty hunters.  They're paladins, and that seems like a very important part of the design.

But hey, who am I to say?  Go ahead and try it!



Title: Re: Bene Gesserit - DitV for Dune?
Post by: Web_Weaver on March 08, 2007, 04:19:38 AM
Hi all,

If your serious about this one I would suggest checking out Jihad for Burning Wheel, and Burning Empires.

Jihad has centre stage the concept of travelling form planet to planet dealing with the issues on each, in the terrible wars inspired by Paul's rise to power. Burning Empires takes the campaign ideas and fleshes them out into a fully working campaign creation / political system, all be it with a different background.

The structure is much wider in scope than a 1-2 session visit to a planet but the themes and ideas are all there, as well as how to work-in each of the political groups.

An interesting theme to develop into a central premise could be the moral ambiguity at the heart of Paul's religious following. The books are cleverly written with the Atreides line as protagonists, but with both subtle and blindingly obvious reasons why these guys are not the good guys (Sixty Billion Dead People for starters). See here (http://www.dunenovels.com/news/genesis.html) for insight into the authors intent.

So I second the Fremen Jihad Dogs wandering from planet to planet approach, and would include the central thematic tension between pragmatic politics with the responsibility of leadership, and the fanatical belief in Paul as a religious Messiah. Similar to Paul's own dilemmas in Dune and Dune Messiah but delegated to those responsible in the distant turf war on the thousands of planets that are not focused on in the books. Places where Jihad is taken to a cleansing extreme and alternative philosophies are driven underground.

Maybe a non-extremist faction answerable directly to the Imperial Atreides House, sent to discourage excesses based on blind loyalty and fundamentalism, but with responsibilities to police those who would rebel. Mixed character groups would be fitting with the novels' multiple viewpoints and moral ambiguities.