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General Forge Forums => Actual Play => Topic started by: Laura Bishop on August 10, 2001, 03:04:00 AM



Title: Lexicon: words words words
Post by: Laura Bishop on August 10, 2001, 03:04:00 AM
So, I've seen the terms 'Simulationist' and 'Narrativism' used several times here at the Forge, with a basic understanding of these terms by those who used them.  I've also seen 'Gamist'.

For those of us who may be new, could someone take a second to perhaps explain these? : }

Obviously, these are perceived philosophies on how one approaches a RPG.  I'm just personally confused on what classifies someone who 'Simulates' versus someone who 'Narrates'.  And is a 'Gamist' something like a 'Fascist'.

Inquiring minds want to know!  Or, at least mine does.

Thanks!

--L


Title: Lexicon: words words words
Post by: Mytholder on August 10, 2001, 03:41:00 AM
Ah.

Well, ideally, you'd read through all the archives in the GNS forum, and then the archives on Gamingoutpost.com...and then you'd go off to google's Usenet archive and read the records of rec.games.frp.advocacy. It shouldn't take more than a few weeks. :smile:

Seriously...Gamism/Narrativism/Simulationism are our local version of a theory of game taxonomy. Some people find them exceedingly useful, others, well, don't. There's an FAQ at http://www.indie-rpgs.com/articles/faq, but a lot of people - myself included - disagree with a lot of it. A revised version is in the works.

John Kim's site (can't recall the URL right now) has an old version of the state of discussion at rgfa.

I wrote an intro to the theory for an irish 'zine a few months ago. It's pretty shallow, but it might help. It's at http://www.mytholder.f2s.com/gaming/taxonomy.html

Any questions should be posted in the GNS forum...

[later] I managed to mess up every URL in this post, hence the edits...

[ This Message was edited by: Mytholder on 2001-08-10 07:43 ]

[ This Message was edited by: Mytholder on 2001-08-10 07:46 ]


Title: Lexicon: words words words
Post by: Ron Edwards on August 10, 2001, 05:26:00 AM
Much of the discussion at the Forge is based on my essay "System Does Matter," which is right here in the Articles section (link at the top of the page). The FAQ document Gareth mentions is a rough draft to try to update and integrate that essay with other matters, but it is being revised very slowly.

I'd recommend going by the essay. It's sketchy and lends itself to projection by the reader, but at least the people at the Forge are used to that.

And very importantly: none of the terms are derogatory, or even ranked according to quality. None of this taxonomy is talking about valid vs. invalid ways to role-play. Gamist, Narrativist, and Simulationist behaviors are not being judged.

Best,
Ron


Title: Lexicon: words words words
Post by: Uncle Dark on August 10, 2001, 08:30:00 AM
Quote


And very importantly: none of the terms are derogatory, or even ranked according to quality. None of this taxonomy is talking about valid vs. invalid ways to role-play. Gamist, Narrativist, and Simulationist behaviors are not being judged.



Except occasionally, for egotistic reasons.  That is, most of us try not to be judgemental, but on occasion someone either  takes something more personally than it was meant, or means something more personally than it was taken.  So, while you might occasionally see posts where the taxonomy seems to hit emotional buttons, we're honestly not trying to say "My way is the best/only way."

Even though it is. :smile:

Lon


Title: Lexicon: words words words
Post by: Laura Bishop on August 11, 2001, 10:21:00 PM
Ah.  You don't happen to mean that whole "thing" on the main page that reads:


Articles
The Gamist/Narrativist/Simulationist model explained, plus Ron Edwards shares his realizations he had in his long trip from role-player to author and publisher of Sorcerer.


Not -that- section, do you?

This is me - reading more closely now. ; )  But thanks everyone! : )

-L