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275647 Posts in 27717 Topics by 4285 Members Latest Member: - Jason DAngelo Most online today: 83 - most online ever: 565 (October 17, 2020, 02:08:06 PM)
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Author Topic: Yeah baby, It's here!  (Read 9393 times)
hardcoremoose
Acts of Evil Playtesters
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« on: December 11, 2001, 12:13:00 PM »

Sorcerer and Sword hit my mailbox today...anyone else got theirs' yet?

It looks awesome!  Kudos Ron...very cool.

- Scott
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Paul Czege
Acts of Evil Playtesters
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« Reply #1 on: December 11, 2001, 12:51:00 PM »

That means mine is probably in my mailbox as we speak! Now I'm itching to get out of this cube and home to check it out!

Paul
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My Life with Master knows codependence.
And if you're doing anything with your Acts of Evil ashcan license, of course I'm curious and would love to hear about your plans
Blake Hutchins
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Posts: 614


« Reply #2 on: December 11, 2001, 01:13:00 PM »

Yowza.  Got mine last night.  It has me rarin' to go cut a swath through yowling ape-creatures.

Best,

Blake
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Ron Edwards
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« Reply #3 on: December 11, 2001, 01:57:00 PM »

That funny noise was my sigh of relief. I was beginning to get nervous about those books in the mail.

Comments. I want comments. Publishing Sorcerer and Sword represents the achievement of a personal goal I have cherished since I discovered role-playing in 1977 or so.  

Best,
Ron
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Paul Czege
Acts of Evil Playtesters
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« Reply #4 on: December 11, 2001, 03:41:00 PM »

It's not here. The virtuous are patient.

Paul
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My Life with Master knows codependence.
And if you're doing anything with your Acts of Evil ashcan license, of course I'm curious and would love to hear about your plans
Clinton R. Nixon
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Posts: 2624


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« Reply #5 on: December 11, 2001, 04:31:00 PM »

I haven't seen it yet. (And I designed the dang cover.)

Speaking of that, what do people honestly think about that color on the cover? I had a nice dark, bloody red, and then had to make it a CMYK image (printer-speak for ass-ugly), and it turned out a color that at least I didn't like as much. I tweaked it a lot, but in the end, I wasn't really satisfied. (Soul does not suffer from this problem. I got a really rich dark blue for it.)
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Clinton R. Nixon
CRN Games
Blake Hutchins
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Posts: 614


« Reply #6 on: December 11, 2001, 06:02:00 PM »

Clinton,

The cover color is subdued, but dark enough that the title doesn't pop as it should.  I wondered about that.  From a short distance you have to look twice to read it.  Not unpleasant, not particularly eye-catching.  Bummer about the printing problem.  Did you do a monitor test before you settled on your color settings?  It's something that's caused major headaches for the art directors I've worked with on print jobs.  Glad to hear you've beaten it with Soul.

Ron,

As usual, the content is excellent.  I loved the new "Clicking Sands" material and chuckled at the inspiration for it.

My only quibble is that the maps seemed a bit less polished than I'd expected.  While I know from previous discussion here what you were aiming for, they really seemed superfluous, not adding anything to your settings, and even (in my opinion) detracting a bit from the sense of high quality the artwork and writing conveyed.  I don't wish to disparage the efforts of the mapmakers, but the maps just weren't visually dynamic and I don't think they do your settings justice in terms of stimulating the imagination or offering much in the way of utility.  Pointing to the latter, the Black Forest map in particular was so dense with "forest" that if players wanted to write place names or notes on it, they'd have to tape pieces of paper over it to do so.  Moreover, the cut and paste lines on the forest pattern were painfully obvious, giving a somewhat gridded look to the final product.  I dwell on the maps only because (1) everything else was so damn excellent, and (2) like it or not, maps are enough of a stock feature in fantasy games.  They ought to be high quality.  Please note that I am not referring to the lack of names.  The "Orkworld" open-ended functionality was and is a cool idea.  I'm speaking purely to graphical quality and aesthetic appeal, but then I'm a map snob.

Overall, Sword is probably the most exciting RPG work I've read in the last -- well, ever.  I thought so when I read the PDF, and it's even better now.  It makes me want to drop everything else and put a good blood and guts sword and sorcery game together right NOW.  Fortunately, I'm trying to do just that with the X-Games group.  Unfortunately, it looks like that'll be in 2002, given the holiday schedule meltdown.  I'll have to sate my desires by going out and grabbing some Wagner and Samuelson and then taking a stab at a piece of my own.

Congratulations, Ron.  You've had me pulling out all my old Lieber books from the attic already.  Now you're putting a hole in my wallet from acquisition of used books.

By the way, I recommend taking a look at J. Gregory Keyes's short stories featuring his barbarian hero Fool Wolf.  The Opal of Nar and a few others have appeared in Dragon magazine this last year.  I'll buy the mags just for his stories, which are set in his Waterborn/Blackgod world.  In fact, Fool Wolf may be especially pertinent to Sorcerer fans, since he harbors a demon goddess in his body.  A great deal of the dramatic tension involves his inner conflict with her.  Check it out.

Best,

Blake

[ This Message was edited by: Blake Hutchins on 2001-12-11 21:02 ]
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greyorm
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My name is Raven.


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« Reply #7 on: December 11, 2001, 06:51:00 PM »

I'm still waiting for mine [whimper!]  I need the ego-stroking seeing my art on the cover is gonna give me!  And some of the interiors!  Damnit, I'm a junkie, leave me alone!

-Raven
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Rev. Ravenscrye Grey Daegmorgan
Wild Hunt Studio
Ron Edwards
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« Reply #8 on: December 11, 2001, 08:56:00 PM »

Hi Blake,

The maps are also going up at the website, in color, and they may be more useful/pleasing to you in that form. I agree with you that quality is pretty important for maps, but they really are damned difficult. 'Sword hit an ugly time constraint as well, which 'Soul did not.

I was pleased and even amazed by Keyes' Waterborn & Blackgod books. They were padded, sure, but nowhere near as badly as most (cough) fantasy these days, and I swear to God they read like a classic, beautiful rendition of Gloranthan adventure.

You've definitely whetted my interested in the Fool Wolf stories, and I hope those are slated for collection some time. Gardner F. Fox's sorcerer-warrior character, Kothar, had a demon-goddess patron/sidekick who gave him a nice combination of rescues and headaches. I'll be interested to compare the characters.

Best,
Ron

P.S. Clinton, Raven - chill, guys. The books are on their way.
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greyorm
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My name is Raven.


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« Reply #9 on: December 12, 2001, 08:25:00 AM »

First, let me second the recommendation of the Fool Wolf stories.  Of all the fiction in Dragon in the past few years, Keyes' FW stories have been the ones that have caught and held my attention and interest.

Quote

P.S. Clinton, Raven - chill, guys. The books are on their way.

Can't...hold out...much...longer!!

-Raven
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Rev. Ravenscrye Grey Daegmorgan
Wild Hunt Studio
Blake Hutchins
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Posts: 614


« Reply #10 on: December 12, 2001, 09:48:00 AM »

Ron,

I understand maps are tricky.  Look forward to seeing the ones up on the site.

Waterborn and Blackgod were pretty amazing, though I wanted to strangle Perkar at times, even though I liked him.  Talk about callow youth and putting the wrong foot forward!

Writing style has changed a lot since the pulp days.  There are a lot more third person internal points of view being written now -- in fact, I'd say it's the norm.  Hence the expression of the hero's internal dialogue, including doubts, guilt, and fears.  The pulp sword and sorcery writers used a more distanced technique.  You're shown Conan feeling awe or even fear, but you don't get the internal monologue where he's telling himself, "Fuck! ANOTHER big snake!  I don't know if I can blah blah blah..."  I wonder whether this approach (third person internal voice) contributes to a watered-down feeling with much modern fantasy.

And yeah, Fool Wolf is cool.  Refreshingly amoral in pursuit of his goals.

Best,

Blake
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Ron Edwards
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« Reply #11 on: December 12, 2001, 11:52:00 AM »

Hi Blake,

I shall express a personal opinion regarding your phrase,

"I wonder whether this approach (third person internal voice) contributes to a watered-down feeling with much modern fantasy."

Huck! Huck! Huuuccckkkkk! PTOOEY!! Ptoo, ptoo.

That is not directed at your point, which I agree with (and don't wonder about at all). It's directed at the phenomenon you're describing. It's just a little more ... glottal than your polite statement.

Best,
Ron
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Blake Hutchins
Member

Posts: 614


« Reply #12 on: December 12, 2001, 01:23:00 PM »

Heh.  C'mon, Ron.  Don't hold back.  Tell us how you really feel.

With Perkar the angst thing it worked for me.  He wouldn't have been the same had he not sniveled and moaned through the two books.  He really was your doofus right off the farm, and it's a trope I found damn amusing in light of the warring gods epic he was involved in.

Fool Wolf, on the other hand, is clearly modeled after the trickster-warrior archetype, with what I assume is an animistic take on ye olde werewolf curse.

Now if you want me to hurl, mention Lin Carter.  *urrggh-splat*  Oy.

BTW, David Bischoff is a friend of mine.  He's flattered to be mentioned in your Sorcerer bibliography.

Queasily yours after the Lin Carter thing,

Blake

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greyorm
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My name is Raven.


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« Reply #13 on: December 13, 2001, 09:47:00 AM »

Quote

I wonder whether this approach (third person internal voice) contributes to a watered-down feeling with much modern fantasy.

Lovecraft.

That's all I should say, as the point should be obvious.  But for those to whom it is not: Genius.  Master.  My God of Literature.  Uses third person internal voice all the time.
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Rev. Ravenscrye Grey Daegmorgan
Wild Hunt Studio
jburneko
Member

Posts: 1351


« Reply #14 on: December 13, 2001, 10:17:00 AM »

What's wrong with third person internal voice?  Does this pose a problem ONLY for fantasy or is it true for all "genres"  And what about first person?  Isn't that ALL internal voice?  

Sorry that little exchange just grabbed my interest.  Feel free to email me privately if you think that's more appropriate.

Jesse
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