[Sorcerer] Humanity gain quickie question

[Nev the Deranged]

I assume that means the Gain Roll is also against the demon's Power-at-Banishment rather than its original Power, right? So at least if you whittle that 15 Power demon down to 6 before Banishing it, you get to roll against the 6, not the 15... right?

 Man, this game is brutal sometimes... I have a hard enough time as it is trying to sell gamers on it... I'm going to have to get some virgins just to avoid having to deal with the whole GNS insanity.

On the plus side, it seems pretty unbreakable.

The first comment from my veteran White Wolf / CoC GM friend who is my only player so far when I handed her the quickreference...

 "No fudging?? What the hell!"

*Sigh* kids these days.

 Okay, she's 34, but still. Whine whine whine.

[Ron Edwards]

Hello,

Nev, that's potentially a very confusing question:

I assume that means the Gain Roll is also against the demon's Power-at-Banishment rather than its original Power, right? So at least if you whittle that 15 Power demon down to 6 before Banishing it, you get to roll against the 6, not the 15... right?

This is only a relevant question if the sorcerer's Humanity is lower than 6. If not, then no Humanity gain roll occurs at all.

If so, then yes, you are correct. Roll against the 6, not the 15.

Oh wait, one last thing: first, by "whittle down," you are thinking of Punish, right? Because the demon might have a lowered roll due to damage penalties, but that wouldn't affect its actual Power score. So even if you had it on the ropes due to damage and that provided penalties to its roll, you would still be rolling against 15 for the Humanity gain roll. Only Punish affects the actual Power score by lowering it, which is not the same as merely penalizing it.

Best,
Ron

[Doyce]

So... if I'm facing off against a 15 Power, 15 Will demon...

And my Humanity and Will are both 5...

And I lay... nine dice of physical damage penalties on it... My banish (excepting RP bonuses and ignoring snapshot stuff) would be 10 dice vs it's 12 dice, but if I succeed, my roll for Humanity gain is till 5 dice versus 15 Power.

However, if I lay nine dice of Punish on it... My Banish (exception RP bonuses and ignoring snapshot stuff) would be 10 dice vs it's 21 dice, BUT if the banish suceeds, my Humanity gain roll is 5 dice vs. it's... punished-down-to-6 Power?

I kind of like how this feels -- using Punish doesn't help as much with the Banish (penalizing only one of the two scores involved), but by rejecting the inherent "Otherness" of the Demon, you're giving yourself better odds on the potential Humanity Gain roll.

Using pure violence to give yourself an edge in Banishing the demon accomplishes that really well, but in no way makes it easier to succeed at the Humanity gain roll (which makes so much sense, since you got to that point via Violence).

Huh.  Neat.

[Ron Edwards]

High five, Doyce.

Stuck in the seventies,
Ron