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Started by Vaxalon, July 26, 2004, 10:59:14 AM

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Mike Holmes

Although system as written is often referenced. In fact we'll go out of our way to point that out in most cases, using the old wargamer terminology, "Rules as Written." The term Text gets used a lot, too.

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Quote from: xiombarg...with the Forge's emphasis on actual play, System tends to refer to  "SaP".

This seems to come down to the nub of it; The Forge tends to refer to "as played" and most people outside the Forge refer to "as written" or (if they're being a little more perspicacious) "as published plus our house rules".

I have already stated that these two sets, the "as written" and the "as played" are two different things, neither of which are contained within the other.  They're not the same thing, and neither is a subset of the other.

Which finally brings me to my original point, that when the word "system" is used in the Forge, it means something ("as played") that is different from what it means outside the forge ("as written", or "as published plus house rules").

You can make the point that the thing that the people outside the forge are ACTUALLY referring to is the same as the thing that is being referred to inside the Forge, and that may even be true (though I have already spoken to that point, and offered a refutation).  It doesn't change the fact, that when people use a word, for them at least, it means what they intend it to mean.
"In our game the other night, Joshua's character came in as an improvised thing, but he was crap so he only contributed a d4!"
                                     --Vincent Baker

Ron Edwards


What are your goals in posting in this thread?

I cannot see them. Please tell me which of these applies.

1. You want your viewpoint to be heard and understood.

2. You want to influence or call for a change in how "the Forge" does things or  conducts discussions.

3. You want actually to change the vocabulary itself - i.e. re-write the Glossary.

4. You want one or more of the people who have disagreed with you to alter their viewpoints to be more like yours.

5. You want sympathy and attention because you don't feel as though you immediately fit in at the Forge with full expertise.

Bluntly, this thread has gone on for three pages with absolutely no fruitful outcome, not because "no one's listening to you," but because you are apparently determined to repeat yourself until ... something happens. I'd like to know which of the five somethings it is, or are.

To clarify my outlook, I think #1 has been amply fulfilled, that #2 is an ongoing process that you are free to participate in (like everyone else), that #3 is a perfectly fine option for you if you'd like to volunteer to do it, and that #4-5 are goals that I recommend abandoning quite quickly.



You know, you're right.

Any goals that could have been achieved, have been.  Any goals that remain will never be achieved.  This will be my last post on this thread.
"In our game the other night, Joshua's character came in as an improvised thing, but he was crap so he only contributed a d4!"
                                     --Vincent Baker