Forum changes: Editing of posts has been turned off until further notice.
Started by Silmenume, September 17, 2004, 12:32:56 AM
Quote from: clehrichAll I meant about an Actual Play post was this: if the point of Jay's project with Sim is to examine how the model works, then posting some Actual Play isn't going to help him. It may, however, help others.
Quote from: clehrichCurrently, the onus is on Jay to explain what he wants the tool to do. But I think what he's asking in this thread is whether others are willing to help him clarify this through relatively abstract discussion. The point being that he's pretty sure there's a problem, but he's having some trouble working out exactly what it is, and he wants our assistance in thinking it through.
Quote from: Ron EdwardsI consider your reluctance to disclose this information to be a very strange and possibly disturbing thing.Italicizing mine.
Quote from: Ron EdwardsBut I can tell you this: without this perspective on our parts, your posts might as well have "not important" stamped on them in red letters. No matter how good or potentially fruitful your thoughts seem to you, unless they are presented by a role-player to other role-players, with all of us sharing in the knowledge of one another's experiences and situations of play, then they are not good thoughts. They are disconnected musings. Italicizing mine.
Quote from: Ron EdwardsHowever, I think that if you continue as you have, then your enjoyment of the Forge will be limited in an ever-increasing downward spiral, giving you cause again and again to complain how the discussions are going. If you aren't interested in trying my advice, then over time, there won't have to be any dismissal or oppression for the Forge to become less fun or valuable for you. Apparently that process has already started, which is no more nor less than I expected, back when I provided this advice for the first time.Italicizing mine.
Quote from: bcook1971Quote from: clehrichAll I meant about an Actual Play post was this: if the point of Jay's project with Sim is to examine how the model works, then posting some Actual Play isn't going to help him. It may, however, help others.Exactly. Then they'll be in a better position to help. So it can, ultimately, help him.I guess it's a process of getting on the same page. Then he can cleanly cite any purported Big Model fissure, and his issue and purpose will be unmistakable.
QuoteAlso, responding to Mike's comments, aren't there concrete benefits to be gained from pluralism and non-monolithic understandings of roleplaying? If we always demand that people learn the Forge language and speak it all the time that they're here, we never get to learn from outsider perspectives.
Quote from: JayThe very existence of this site is testament to the difficulties in breaking an existing paradigm. Unless I am mistaken GNS was meeting huge amounts of resistance at another discussion site where the prevailing paradigm was the three-fold model. IOW the new GNS paradigm could not properly flourish in the presence of those who were deeply committed to the old three-fold paradigm. Better to start afresh than to waste huge bloodying amounts of effort trying to convince others that their previous models are wrong. I did not think I would run into the very same problem here that I heard echoes about from the previous site.
Quote from: Mike HolmesJay, if you go fishing, and people say, "Well, I don't get how what you're saying improves on the current model," it's not that you're wrong, neccessarily, or that we're not giving reasonable consideration to what you're saying. It's just that we don't get it.