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275647 Posts in 27717 Topics by 4285 Members Latest Member: - Jason DAngelo Most online today: 76 - most online ever: 565 (October 17, 2020, 02:08:06 PM)
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Author Topic: 10 Dogs, 6 Ronin and Assorted Bombastic Aristos  (Read 26393 times)
Bankuei
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« Reply #30 on: February 07, 2005, 10:26:31 AM »

Hi guys,

Quote
But doesn't Vincent's lesson on follow-up from DitV apply here? Once they've made the decision, that's the time to start pressing them... "You trust him... even now? Even in this situation? Even when he says this?" Or are those follow-ups going to be less charged than the original decision? They might... I'm not sure.


I think a big difference is that Dogs gives you a whole new situation every time in the form of a Town.  Each town gives you different issues to work with and lets you press the characters from different directions.

While I could also fathom a long term campaign where the goal was to kill the "big-bad" at the end, because the focus is on trust between player characters(and, players), I'd have to agree with Tony that at a certain point folks will have decided where they stand, because it's just one issue being pushed back and forth as the focus.

If you add too much to that, then you lose the focus and it shifts instead to player characters interactions with non-player characters as the focus.

Chris
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timfire
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« Reply #31 on: February 07, 2005, 11:53:31 AM »

Quote from: RobNJ
Quote from: timfire
Something to consider is that characters in tMW (and in all RPG's) are only 1 or 2 dimension.

Perhaps so, because I would disagree with this.  Given more time, I feel like I could've given my PC a few more dimensions

I probably unneccessarily muddled the water with that comment. My point is in tMW the situation is hyper-focused. It's not an ongoing campaign, where characters are going to faced with a variety of issues. They are only going to be confronted by 3 things:

1. Their Fate.
2. The background (sometimes this is intertwined with their Fate).
3. The actions of the other characters.

In the limited amount of playtesting I've done, players seem to pick on one or two issues and focus on those things. Generally, they focus on issues related to their fate, and as long as the other players don't threaten those issues (ie, as long as they don't betray each other), they don't care what the other characters do.

This doesn't mean characters are shallow, it just means that the players only focus on certain issues.

Quote from: Bankuei
While I could also fathom a long term campaign where the goal was to kill the "big-bad" at the end, because the focus is on trust between player characters(and, players), I'd have to agree with Tony that at a certain point folks will have decided where they stand, because it's just one issue being pushed back and forth as the focus.

If you add too much to that, then you lose the focus and it shifts instead to player characters interactions with non-player characters as the focus.

I think you meant that you agreed with me. And yeah, I think you've summed up my ideas nicely.
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--Timothy Walters Kleinert
Robert Bohl
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« Reply #32 on: February 07, 2005, 12:23:28 PM »

Okay, in the context of tMW, I see what you mean.  I thought you were referring to RPGs in general.
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TonyLB
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« Reply #33 on: February 07, 2005, 12:29:54 PM »

Likewise.  To really get a different (as opposed to escalated) question you would need a new external situation.  When everything is moving toward the Mountain Witch (and simultaneously toward the sharpest possible version of the current trust-questions) you can only go so long before you get there.
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Bankuei
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« Reply #34 on: February 07, 2005, 12:53:10 PM »

Hi Tim,

Quote
I think you meant that you agreed with me. And yeah, I think you've summed up my ideas nicely.


Oops, my bad!  I apologize.
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timfire
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« Reply #35 on: February 07, 2005, 01:42:52 PM »

Quote from: nikola
That's something that was unclear to me: how, when, and why, do you reveal your Fate?

You know Josh, let me ask you a few questions: When did you decide that your character's Worst Fear was the guilt over letting his master/lover die? Before the dream sequence?

When did you decide that the way to deal with that fear was to march straight to the Witch?

Once you figured out that the suicidal march was the thing to do, did you still have trouble knowing what to do with your Fate?

I admit I probably could have been clearer about foreshadowing and revealing Fates, but I wonder if your confusion wasn't so much with how they worked, but was because you didn't know what you wanted to do with your Fate?

Fates literally hand players a blank check. And I think that may cause an choice overload, where there are too many options to decide. This is one of the reasons I advise the 4 Act structure.

The Intro just lets players establish themselves. The players then use that knowledge to start building relationships (building tension). It also gives players some time to think about their Fates. It also gives players material to use with their Fates - if they want. Now, if we had had the time and I was able to test you with your Fate, my adversity might have help you find direction for how you wanted to resolve your Fate.

Are you following me? What do you think of that?
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Joshua A.C. Newman
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the glyphpress


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« Reply #36 on: February 07, 2005, 04:10:17 PM »

Quote from: timfire
When did you decide that your character's Worst Fear was the guilt over letting his master/lover die? Before the dream sequence?


No, but that helped solidify the details to me.

Quote
When did you decide that the way to deal with that fear was to march straight to the Witch?


When we stopped doing anything and I did a little 'What should Tesshu be doing right now?' check.

Quote
Once you figured out that the suicidal march was the thing to do, did you still have trouble knowing what to do with your Fate?


Nope. It was very clear.

Quote
I admit I probably could have been clearer about foreshadowing and revealing Fates, but I wonder if your confusion wasn't so much with how they worked, but was because you didn't know what you wanted to do with your Fate?


Yeah, but since what made it clear was actual stuff that happened in the story, it would clarify to have opportunity for exposition at the beginning.

Quote
The Intro just lets players establish themselves. The players then use that knowledge to start building relationships (building tension). It also gives players some time to think about their Fates. It also gives players material to use with their Fates - if they want. Now, if we had had the time and I was able to test you with your Fate, my adversity might have help you find direction for how you wanted to resolve your Fate.

Are you following me? What do you think of that?


That's exactly what I'm thinking. The earlier the Fate stuff hits, the earlier you can start working it out.
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the glyphpress's games are Shock: Social Science Fiction and Under the Bed.

I design books like Dogs in the Vineyard and The Mountain Witch.
Ron Edwards
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« Reply #37 on: February 07, 2005, 08:45:21 PM »

Hello,

Both times I've played the game, [The Mountain Witch] A playtest and [The Mountain Witch] Playtest comments #1, we specifically decided to give everyone the opportunity to foreshadow their fates at the end of each scene. People also loosened up a bit after the first time we did so and started to continue to foreshadow ad lib throughout the rest of play.

One of the games was only a three-hour single session, so I don't think that a con/demo situation would render this tactic less useful.

Best,
Ron
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Judd
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« Reply #38 on: February 07, 2005, 10:00:16 PM »

I am reminded of Michael's mechanic in With Great Power wherein you have to have a scene to show a trait before you can use it.

Maybe the 3 powers could be linked to different hints at the Dark Fate and so you have to show this hint in a scene before you can use said power.
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timfire
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« Reply #39 on: February 08, 2005, 02:26:58 PM »

Quote from: Paka
I am reminded of Michael's mechanic in With Great Power wherein you have to have a scene to show a trait before you can use it.

Maybe the 3 powers could be linked to different hints at the Dark Fate and so you have to show this hint in a scene before you can use said power.

I don't think such a hard line is neccessary. The ultimate concern is that players cause conflict/tension in their relationships with the other PC's. The easiest way (maybe?) to do this is with your fate. But hypothetically you could have a player that causes conflict with some other element (maybe he tries to kill the other PC's so he can collect the reward money). With such a player, I - personally - wouldn't push him very hard to foreshadow his fate.

When I played with Ron I was sorta like this. My fate didn't cause much conflict, but the regret over my past did.

To my other players, were you all confused about how to use your Fates? Once you figured out what direction you wanted to move in, did you still have questions?
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Andrew Morris
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« Reply #40 on: February 08, 2005, 08:11:39 PM »

Tim, I had a different experience. My fate, coupled with the zodiac sign, gave me everything I needed to know about my character right from the start. As soon as I saw which Fate he had, I knew, in broad, who he was and what his story would be like, and it played out pretty much like I envisioned. All I had to do was fill in the details. I never had a point where I was uncertain what direction to go in.
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Judd
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« Reply #41 on: February 08, 2005, 08:23:40 PM »

Tim, I feel the system works fine as it is.  I believe I just said that I am reminded of Michael's system for WGP...

Thassall.

I like that we insert plot hooks for the GM to grab, that's super-cool.
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