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275647 Posts in 27717 Topics by 4285 Members Latest Member: - Jason DAngelo Most online today: 57 - most online ever: 565 (October 17, 2020, 02:08:06 PM)
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Author Topic: Dogs in the Convention Hall & Post Game Chat  (Read 6966 times)
Judd
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Posts: 1641

Please call me Judd.


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« on: February 13, 2005, 10:06:31 PM »

I think I will be able to create characters and run 'em through a town in under 4 hours.  I tried to test my theory this weekend when I ran 4 people on a game of Dogs but I lost track of my timing and I'm not sure how I did.

One of the things I am coming to love about Dogs is the post-game discussions it brings to the table.  Morality, religion, right and wrong, justice and the startling awful responsibilty of absolute power all come to the table after a session of Dogs and that's not even to mention the "Oh MAN, that was so kewl!" factor that is absolutely evident, as it should be in a game with gunslingers with a mandate from GOD.

I might even schedule 15 minutes at the end of the session to talk about what happened at the con game.  Hmmm.

So, let's say its a noon to four p.m. game.  12:00-12:30 to make up characters.  12:30 to 1:00 to run through accomplishments and 1:00 to 3:45 to get through the town.  3:45 to 4:00 to talk about the game.

I'll wrassle up some olks and see how that kind of time scheduling works at the table.

Things I dig:

 - I dig how Accomplishments work as a Kicker.  They kind of tell the GM what kind of issues the player wants to be confronted with in play.  While at the town I inserted a bandito who had shot his Watchdog-mentor during the player's accomplishment into the adventure.  Twas nice.

 - I make the d10's get rolled as SOON AS GUNS ARE DRAWN.  This means players don't have to say they are shooting, they only have to resort to them as an answer to their problems.  Perhaps I am channeling some Dimestore Katana issues about violence but that's how I ran it.  As soon as steel cleared leather, d10 fallouts and GAME ON.

I had a player die in his first real conflict.  It was interesting because it was a stand-off without shots fired.  He had won the conflict but had died from 3d10 fall-out.  Bad mojo.  So, he narrated going to the nearby Ft. Steadfast after having hung one of the fort's soldiers as a murderer.  The fort's Commander had the Dog shot for having taken territory justice into his own hands.

The player, while the other games played on, made up a new dog, easy enough once you've made one.  I gave it a quick once over and the player's old crusty Dog sauntered into town.

Another good game of Dogs.  Rock on.

The two games I want in my pocket for the upcoming Con season are Dogs in the Vineyard and Sorcerer, Dictionary of Mu.

Should be a fun season.
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Lance D. Allen
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« Reply #1 on: February 14, 2005, 12:23:09 AM »

A'right.. I'm not certain I understand what you mean about having fallout rolled as soon as guns are drawn.

I mean.. what? There isn't any fallout unless you're forced or choose to take the blow. So, do you mean that as soon as someone takes the blow in a gunfight, you roll the fallout right away? Or do you mean something else?
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~Lance Allen
Wolves Den Publishing
Eternally Incipient Publisher of Mage Blade, ReCoil and Rats in the Walls
Judd
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Please call me Judd.


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« Reply #2 on: February 14, 2005, 12:25:07 AM »

I don't mean they TAKE fall-out, I mean that as soon as guns are OUT, the fall-out becomes d10.  Not that fall-out is rolled even if they don't choose to take it...no no no.  

I am going to re-read Dogs this week and I'll see if I reform my thoughts on this.
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Lance D. Allen
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« Reply #3 on: February 14, 2005, 12:47:50 AM »

Ah, okay. I see what you're talking about, I think.

So if the guns come out, and no fallout is taken from the shots and the conflict returns to talking and fallout is taken, then it's still 1d10.

Not how I'd do it.. But if it works for you, then cool.
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~Lance Allen
Wolves Den Publishing
Eternally Incipient Publisher of Mage Blade, ReCoil and Rats in the Walls
Judd
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Please call me Judd.


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« Reply #4 on: February 14, 2005, 02:34:07 AM »

I guess I have a question:

Okay, the Dog draws his guns and so do the sinners.  Everyone rolls their gun dice all around along with any trains that have to do with guns.

But in the narration, no one fires a shot....

Do you still have d10 fallout?

I did, a PC died, and I'm not sure I was right.
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Lance D. Allen
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« Reply #5 on: February 14, 2005, 02:53:32 AM »

The way I understand it, fallout dice size is determined by the action that caused the fallout.

Example:

Dove is a talk or shoot kinda guy. He has deeply held beliefs, which are being reinforced, that physical confrontation with fists or other weapons just doesn't work. So he's in the middle of a talking conflict with someone, which suddenly turns ugly. Guns come out, and he takes a shot, which the other fella dodges by ducking behind a barrel. Dove's next raise, he tries to talk the guy into giving up peaceably, waxing eloquent. The other guy can't See the Raise with two dice, so has to take the blow. Because Dove was talking, even after the conflict escalated to guns, the guy takes his dice in d4s. If, during the same conflict, the guy pulls a knife and manages to force Dove to take the blow, then it's weapons fallout (d8s), even if he'd previously shot at him.

I've not given the book a really detailed read, just a once-over to get a good handle on everything, but that's how we've been doing it. It's my recent experience that d8s are plenty deadly (two seriously injured dogs in Saturday night's session) enough; Save the d10s for when bullets rend flesh, so says I.

However, if the players were invested in the scene, they enjoyed it and thought it was cool, then I can't say your way was wrong.
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~Lance Allen
Wolves Den Publishing
Eternally Incipient Publisher of Mage Blade, ReCoil and Rats in the Walls
Kaare Berg
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Posts: 158


« Reply #6 on: February 14, 2005, 03:15:43 AM »

Got to go the way of the Paka here.

It does say that if a character get over 20 on fallout he's dead. He either dies after the conflict or get to set up the scene where he dies.

i.e. The gunslinging Dog pulls out his gun yet talks the sinner down. No shot is narrated. However the Dog still end up rolling a 20, he is dead. So say the sinner was so intimidated that he waits for the Dog to leave, the dog rides along while the sinner waits on a bluff with his rifle. Bang, the sniping sinner takes out the Dog. This isn't a conflict. The dog is dead. This is just how he died.

Guns raise the stakes to the outermost level. IMO letting them roll lesser fallout dice removes the inherent threat in those shiny gun-dice. Albeit it says in the play example (in the blessed text) that the protagonist uses physical on his brother and thus those D10s in fallout do not come out and they roll physical fallout.
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-K
Michael S. Miller
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« Reply #7 on: February 14, 2005, 03:46:10 AM »

Quote from: Paka
So, let's say its a noon to four p.m. game.  12:00-12:30 to make up characters.  12:30 to 1:00 to run through accomplishments and 1:00 to 3:45 to get through the town.  3:45 to 4:00 to talk about the game.


Hi, Judd.

At least for Gen Con, they ask that "4 hour" events end after 3 hours and 45 minutes, so that players have time to get to their next game, and the GM has time to clear the table for the next GM to arrive.

Of course, at GenCon, the post-game chat can very easily take place on the walk from the gaming table to the Forge booth, where they can buy a copy of their very own. 8^)
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lumpley
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« Reply #8 on: February 14, 2005, 06:22:27 AM »

Rules question! The answer is: your Fallout dice depend on the particulars of the Blow you Took, not on what realms of conflict are in play.

You say: "I draw my gun and put it to your forehead! I'm all shouting, 'confess, sinner, confess!' " You roll your gun's dice, because you brought it into the Raise (presuming you hadn't already earlier in the conflict). Let's say d8+d4. So you put forward any two dice, let's say big ones.

I say: "Crap. I take the blow. With, let's see, these five dice. 'Okay! Don't kill me! I confess!' " I get 5d4 Fallout. It's d4s because you didn't pull the trigger.

You say: "Not good enough after all. I pull the trigger." You put forward two more big dice.

If I Take that Blow, that's when I get d10s.

Notice that you can shoot someone without ever escalating to gunfighting, if you shoot someone but it's not a gunfight.

Otherwise, about con games: the big lesson I learned at Dreamation was to take all the time I wanted during character creation. Play character creation out fully and unhurriedly. It repays you in investment in the characters, in a big way. If you have to abbreviate the town at the end, that's okay - by 3hrs 15mins you've already revealed the entire town, the players have had a couple excellent "oh ... CRAP" moments, and the PCs have begun to judge. You can spend the last half hour saying yes instead of rolling dice. Just basically ask the players what they want to do about it and have it be so.

-Vincent
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Judd
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Posts: 1641

Please call me Judd.


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« Reply #9 on: February 14, 2005, 06:25:18 AM »

Woops, the guy in my game shouldn't have died.  Okay.  It is time to re-read the book, something I should've done before running the game, naturally.

Well, I know for next time.

A good time was had by all and the guy who died is a buddy of mine, so no harm done.  Everyone agreed that it was a dramatic and awesome death that did nothing but make the game more rich.

They buried him under the hangin' tree and we all agreed that the next morning the tree would have its first bloom in decades...
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Joshua A.C. Newman
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the glyphpress


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« Reply #10 on: February 14, 2005, 07:39:47 AM »

Quote from: lumpley
Notice that you can shoot someone without ever escalating to gunfighting, if you shoot someone but it's not a gunfight.


As in, you don't roll the Attributes relevant to gunfighting? What's escalation if not changing fallout size?
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the glyphpress's games are Shock: Social Science Fiction and Under the Bed.

I design books like Dogs in the Vineyard and The Mountain Witch.
lumpley
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« Reply #11 on: February 14, 2005, 07:46:57 AM »

Quote from: J
As in, you don't roll the Attributes relevant to gunfighting? What's escalation if not changing fallout size?

Exactly. You can inflict d10s in Fallout (by shooting someone) without ever rolling Acuity+Will (by escalating to gunfighting). You just have to shoot them in non-gunfighting circumstances.

Whether that will ever come up in the real world, who knows.

Escalation (rolling new Stats) and Fallout (how many dice of what size) are related, obviously, but they don't constrain one another directly.

-Vincent
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Judd
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Posts: 1641

Please call me Judd.


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« Reply #12 on: February 14, 2005, 08:14:24 AM »

Quote from: lumpley
Quote from: J
As in, you don't roll the Attributes relevant to gunfighting? What's escalation if not changing fallout size?

Exactly. You can inflict d10s in Fallout (by shooting someone) without ever rolling Acuity+Will (by escalating to gunfighting). You just have to shoot them in non-gunfighting circumstances.

Whether that will ever come up in the real world, who knows.

Escalation (rolling new Stats) and Fallout (how many dice of what size) are related, obviously, but they don't constrain one another directly.

-Vincent


Vincent, could you give me an in-game example of how this could work, please.  I am really not following ya.
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Joshua A.C. Newman
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the glyphpress


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« Reply #13 on: February 14, 2005, 08:53:31 AM »

Quote from: Paka
Vincent, could you give me an in-game example of how this could work, please.  I am really not following ya.


Yeeeeaaahh... I'm confused too. Is there a reason you'd want to do this?

Correct me if I'm wrong:

- Escalation means rolling new stats. Mechanically, it doesn't mean anything else.

- Fallout comes from the tool in question. You can use any tool, regardless of the level of escalation.
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the glyphpress's games are Shock: Social Science Fiction and Under the Bed.

I design books like Dogs in the Vineyard and The Mountain Witch.
Tim Alexander
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Posts: 304


« Reply #14 on: February 14, 2005, 08:55:59 AM »

Hey Judd,

Quote from: Paka
Vincent, could you give me an in-game example of how this could work, please.  I am really not following ya.


I'm not Vincent, but check the example on page 38 of the book for an example.

-Tim
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