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275647 Posts in 27717 Topics by 4285 Members Latest Member: - Jason DAngelo Most online today: 77 - most online ever: 565 (October 17, 2020, 02:08:06 PM)
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Author Topic: [DitV] Question about injury from non-physical fallout  (Read 8463 times)
TonyLB
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« Reply #15 on: March 23, 2005, 08:03:39 AM »

Cool.  I get it now.  I was reading an agenda into your statements that wasn't there.  Sorry for the misunderstanding!
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Joshua A.C. Newman
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the glyphpress


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« Reply #16 on: March 23, 2005, 08:35:40 AM »

I think that a character could die of a broken heart within a particular SIS when playing Dogs. I'm not certain how it could happen rules-wise, though.

I mean, in playing a different Breed of Dogs, I can see; like if the environment is diplomatic, or used magic words, or in something like Dune, where words are bigger than knives, or some such.

But I don't see how a character can die or receive permanent damage given the current rules. And I want to, cuz I think it's a fantastic idea, given a group that would be into it.
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the glyphpress's games are Shock: Social Science Fiction and Under the Bed.

I design books like Dogs in the Vineyard and The Mountain Witch.
Doug Ruff
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« Reply #17 on: March 23, 2005, 10:59:34 AM »

Quote from: Ron Edwards
Hello,

Tony, my latest post specifically answers your question:

Quote
Social injuries would be a bit odd, since the only rules-effect of an injury that I recall is that you roll to see whether you're bleeding to death. How bad of a tongue-lashing are you folks imagining here?


My answer: no, social injuries are not odd at all.

You can take that answer and apply it to playing Dogs, using the current system, if the group wants to.



I agree with the first part of Ron's argument (social injuries aren't odd at all) but I cannot see how you can bring this into Dogs by using escalation, without changing the system.

Because the size of the fallout dice depends on the blow you take, so you can't take more than D4s in Fallout from 'just talking' even if the conflict has escalated to the point where everyone is waving their guns around.

So, although I think it would be a fine thing to give higher Fallout for particularly violent verbal exchanges, it would be a change to the current system.

However, as pointed out earlier in the thread, it is possible to do long-term injury through verbal fallout, through reducing Stats. I guess it's possible to reduce a Stat to zero, and die from verbal Fallout. But  this isn't likely to happen in Actual Play, because the player gets to choose the type of Fallout, and the vast majority are going to pick new traits at D4, because it's a type of experience reward.

In other words, the system in Dogs supports actual physical harm as a result of verbal conflict, but it doesn't reward it. Does this help any?
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Trevis Martin
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Posts: 499


« Reply #18 on: March 23, 2005, 11:04:16 AM »

Hey Ron,

I totally get  you on the social injury.  It seem to me to go along with what Vincent has said several times that just because a conflict escalates to physical, fighting or guns. (Or for that matter from Guns to talking, depending on where you start) doesn't mean that you conflict doesn't still include talking, etc.  So totally, esp with escalation, in the rules as written, you could sustain fallout higher than 8 and get injuried 'unto death' from it without being physically maimed or shot or whatever, but instead in a socially debilitating  way.

I suppose instead of going to a doctor they might go to a teacher at the temple for some medicine for the spirit.

Trevis
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lumpley
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« Reply #19 on: March 23, 2005, 11:05:22 AM »

Good CHRIST! What does a guy have to do around here to get to roll Acuity and Will into his side of the conflict?

Good CHRIST! What does a guy have to do around here to get to roll d10s for Fallout?

I post this not because it'll be helpful (maybe it will, I don't care!) but because this is a funny thread and I love it.

-Vincent
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gorckat
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Posts: 39


« Reply #20 on: March 23, 2005, 11:48:51 AM »

caveat: i have never played nor read the rules fr DitV, but only wish to contribute to the conversation from a 'theoretical' standpoint

okay- 'social injuries': does the system allow for some kind of 'delayed' penalty, a sorcerer-esque carryover till later? the 'wounds' manifest as impaired ability to interact effectively with other dogs, if i understand it correctly, perhaps

also- social failiures in the real world can lead to things like panic disorder, anxiety disorder, derpression, bipolar disorder- various psychosis that can have serious physical health effects [hmm, not speaking from experience am i? ;) ]. perhaps, if the appropriate for the setting, a dog gets depressed and starts to suffer physical effects (lower stamina, etc...) after getting verbally cut to shit

anyway- this thread is interesting to me simply in an abstract 'how do i apply it to other games' kind-of way, as are so many threads here where i have no knowledge of the 'actual' system rules
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Lxndr
Acts of Evil Playtesters
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« Reply #21 on: March 23, 2005, 12:05:27 PM »

I suppose you could take talking damage (d4) and roll two 4s, get an 8, and decide that your permanent fallout trait is:

"I'm dead 1d4."  Thus, the talking kills you, and your death might wind up complicating your future conflicts.  But, that seems vaguely silly.

On the other hand, there's nothing against Ceremonial Fallout being applied against other Dogs.  That can be much higher for something that's "just" talking/nonphysical, isn't it?  But then, by being Ceremonial it's fraught fuller with meaning.
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Doug Ruff
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Posts: 445


« Reply #22 on: March 23, 2005, 01:11:57 PM »

Quote from: lumpley
Good CHRIST! What does a guy have to do around here to get to roll Acuity and Will into his side of the conflict?

Good CHRIST! What does a guy have to do around here to get to roll d10s for Fallout?

I post this not because it'll be helpful (maybe it will, I don't care!) but because this is a funny thread and I love it.

-Vincent


OK, I'll bite: where's the funny? Apart from that we're all having a very earnest discussion about your game when we could be playing it instead and having more fun?
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Joshua A.C. Newman
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the glyphpress


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« Reply #23 on: March 23, 2005, 01:36:27 PM »

Quote from: lumpley
Good CHRIST! What does a guy have to do around here to get to roll Acuity and Will into his side of the conflict?


Get in an argument.

Quote
Good CHRIST! What does a guy have to do around here to get to roll d10s for Fallout?


Quote from: A really early copy of Dogs in the Vineyard
The size of the Fallout Dice you take depends on the nature of the blow: d4s if it's not physical, d6s if it's physical but not a hit with a weapon, d8s if it's a hit with a weapon but not a bullet, and d10s if it's a bullet.
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the glyphpress's games are Shock: Social Science Fiction and Under the Bed.

I design books like Dogs in the Vineyard and The Mountain Witch.
lumpley
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« Reply #24 on: March 23, 2005, 02:07:04 PM »

Arguing is Acuity + Heart! You get to roll your Acuity + Will into your side of the conflict when you have your character shoot a gun at someone, or react appropriately to someone shooting a gun at her.

Otherwise: Exactly. Two different questions with two different answers.

Now, I provide answers in the book. I'd start with them if I were you - and if you ask me what the rules are, they're the ones I'll tell you - but there's nothing essential about them in particular. If you know what you're doing, and believe me Ron does, feel free to answer them differently to your taste.

I consider that to be customization along the lines of "how much effect in the material world does ceremony have?" I don't consider it to be changing the rules at all.

-Vincent
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