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Out of Dice

Started by Darren Hill, June 11, 2005, 05:55:56 PM

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Darren Hill

Here's a question. I use my last dice to Raise, and you use your last dice to See (successfully Blocking). Neither of us have dice left, so who wins?

I'm inclined to think that I win.
It's your turn to Raise, but you can't, so you have to Give.

Is this correct?

I imagine it's rare, but this situation came very close to occurring during Monday's session.

Eric Provost

That is correct.  If it's your turn to put dice out, for any reason, and you can't, you've got to fold.


Darren Hill

Thanks, that's what I thought.

There's now an actual play post over at:

Lance D. Allen

I don't remember reading this anywhere in the book, one way or the other. My GM says that if both people are out of dice, and the last raise has been seen, then the conflict ends unresolved. I believe he said he read this in the book.. Lx or Vincent, feel free to verify or decry.

On the one hand, it sorta makes sense; You only lose the conflict if you give or fail to see a raise, in most cases. If you cannot raise, and your opponent has dice left, then that muddies it slightly, but not much.

This damn near happened last night as well. It came down to calling on improvised objects (rather, possessions either previously mentioned or considered reasonable that weren't written on the character sheet) The conflict only really ended because we advised one of the participants that she was needing the improvised objects to play catch up, whereas her opponent was using them to maintain his lead.
~Lance Allen
Wolves Den Publishing
Eternally Incipient Publisher of Mage Blade, ReCoil and Rats in the Walls

Darren Hill

Is Lance right?
Can a conflict end unresolved like this?

All I can find in the rules is this:
QuoteAnyone who has too few dice to See when they have to— and can’t or won’t escalate— is out of the conflict. Whoever’s left at the end gets to decide the fate of what’s at stake. Everybody deals with their Fallout Dice, and then the conflict’s done!

It doesn't say anything aout being unable to Raise. To my mind, when it's your turn to Raise and you don't have any dice, this is the same as Giving.
This situation isn't theoretical anymore - it happened in my Monday's session, and I think the context supports my approach.
Several Dogs were in conflict with each other, and one used his last dice to See, and it was suddenly his turn and he couldn't Go. The conflict wasn't over, because there was at least one Dog left on each side. But since he couldn't Go, he had to Give.
Now, he could have escalated, but he chose not to - so it was definitely a Give.
This context suggests to me that a one-on-one conflict would work the same way. And when you reach the point you can't escalate any more and still have no dice left, you have to Give. Even if you used you last dice to successfully See.
Does this seem sound?

Simon Kamber

Definitely does. Even more so because the alternative is unresolved conflicts, something I don't think can work. All it could possibly lead to is a follow-up with the same stakes.
Simon Kamber


If it's your turn to raise, and you can't or won't, you have to give. Even if everyone else is out of dice too!