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Swords for Guns?

Started by lumpley, September 13, 2005, 11:00:37 AM

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Sydney Freedberg

Also in answer to Sean:

I agree the term "escalation" confuses people, because it implies a rigid ladder. But escalation it is:

a) Mechanically: You add new dice -- either stats you haven't rolled yet, or traits and belongings, or both -- whenever you move conflict into a new arena, even if you were shooting and are now talking.

b) Dramatically: Just because you were shooting and are now talking doesn't mean you can't still shoot the guy. You Raise: "Enough is enough." I see: "Not for me!" I raise: "Bang!" You see: "Fine. BANG!" You've added the possibility of talking me down, not taken away the possibility of shooting me down.

So there never really is "escalation downward." Escalation is always throwing more dice and more possibilities into the conflict, so it's always upward.

(P.S.: Obviously, I am not Vincent, or even an experienced Dogs player. But when I finally think I understand the nuances of something this cool, I can't help trying to explain it to people).


Thanks, Vincent. That's what I thought, more or less, and how I had been playing it. Given that answer, I don't find the term 'escalation' confusing at all, but I can see how some people might. (The term 'escalation downwards' which I used is misleading, though, so I'll drop it.)


Quote"Nice weather though, huh?" isn't (generally) going to cut it.

Whereas, "I killed your pa, and you're my son." in the middle of a gunfight is pretty hard to ignore.

This thread has been extremely enlightening, especially Sydney and Vincent's posts. I'm now thinking that my initial impulse to use Heart + Will for magic in my "Shadowrun 2030 as written by Sean Stewart" campaign (which needs a shorter tag, I know) should instead be to use Acuity + Will with d10 fallout for magic, with guns using Body + Will.  That has some nice implications for character design too, so its very pleasing.

Many thanks to all involved in the discussion!


Let us say that someone whipped out a gun right away and started blasting.  You then escalate to talking.  At the end of the conflict does the gun's d10 determine fallout or the talk's d4?

I'm big on the "once guns are out, the prospect of violence is always there" school.  But others might think differently

Quote from: Sydney Freedberg on September 14, 2005, 01:15:16 PM
Quote from: Falc on September 14, 2005, 01:05:57 PM
all 4 arenas of conflict are mechanically equal

Except for fallout, of course. That's the one area that your otherwise beautiful circle diagram doesn't capture, and in which "escalation" in the sense of a linear progression actually takes place: talking gives fallout in d4s, physical in d6s, fighting in d8s, and "the morally resonant weapon for the setting" gives d10s, which makes that weapon (as Vincent notes in the book) the only way fallout can kill a character outright (because your two highest fallout dice can only sum to 20 if they're both d10s). So the moral resonance and the mechanic interlock: When this weapon comes out in a conflict, it immediately poses the question, "Are you willing to die for this? Are you willing to kill for it?"

Trevis Martin

You take fallout in a very specific fashion in response to your opponents raise, when you have to Take the Blow.  Therefore, if you take the blow when guns are fired at you, you take d10 fallout.  If you take the blow when the raise was talking, you take D4.  You only ROLL the fallout dice at the end of the conflict, you aquire them during.