Creating the Scenario with the Character Sheets in Front of Me

<< < (6/10) > >>

johnmarron:
Quote from: Michael S. Miller on December 21, 2005, 07:22:11 AM


I'm trying to figure out whether you're objecting to Flags tied to the dice system, or objecting to Flags tied to the capital-"S" System.


Michael,

  I'm objecting (purely for my own tastes and desires) to Flags tied to the dice system.  I think I'm looking for Flags that work under capitol-"S" System without necessarily being tied into resolution or reward rules.  I think Sorcerer kickers are a good example of what I'm looking for.  I love the idea of TROS SA's as Flags, but hate the crunchiness of the rest of the system.

    Judd and I have had discussions recently in which I state my preference as being for rules that "get out of the way", which he pretty strongly disagrees with.  I think I need to give some more thought to what experience I'm trying to get out of a game, and try to write a system that gives me that experience.  Judd has basically thrown down the gauntlet a few times recently (in a nice, supportive way, of course), and said "put up or shut up".

    I'll try to get something on paper that keeps things as narratively described and non-numeric as I want while definitely and clearly spelling out the need, function, and implementation during play of Flags.

John

Judd:
Quote from: RDU Neil on December 21, 2005, 07:37:59 AM

  I guess the question is, don't you feel that individual players have responsibility to the positive experience of the group as a whole, and not just to their own short terms whims?  (Again, I could be misreading, but I just haven't seen anything about player responsibility... just GM responsibility.)

Example: 

Neil, I was sorry to see that your example got cut off.

Yes, I think everyone at the table has Flag Responsibilities.  They have a responsibility to follow their flags with gusto and a responsibility to pursue those flags in ways that are still fun for the rest of the table.

That is tremendously important and not to be taken lightly.  Flags can be a real excuse for My Guy behavior, where a player acts like an ass and points to their character sheet, to an SA or Belief in order to show why they did as they did.

But the sudden lack of interest would seem to be almost a symptom of something else at hand.  I wonder if that isn't worthy of its own AP thread to examine what is going on there.

Thanks for chiming in.

David Chunn:
Hi, John.

Like Judd, I really don't get the minimalist thing sometimes. I only understand part of it. To me, it seems like you don't want to put numbers to the most important stuff. If having too many stats on a page is a problem, then the solution is to hardwire the Flags and drop all that other stuff. I mean, what's really important:  character abilities or character flags?  If I've got to choose between the two, I want Flags tied into the mechanics (and with numbers on them). Obviously, this a GNS sort of question. Sim may require more than just Flags, I guess.

For example, after looking over a character sheet from an old detailed game I played in, I can summarize all the skills, abilities, and what-not into the four Flag stats below. As a player, those are all I really needed because they are what I wanted to say with the character. I easily could have replaced all that other stuff with these. Stick a number on each, tie in a Humanity stat, provide a Life rating, and I'd be good. (I'd need to be able to shift them, of course.)

1. Own a whorehouse.
2. Heroic despite others' expectations.
3. Master the arts of necromancy.
4. Stay alive.

johnmarron:
Quote from: David Chunn on December 21, 2005, 08:11:04 AM

For example, after looking over a character sheet from an old detailed game I played in, I can summarize all the skills, abilities, and what-not into the four Flag stats below. As a player, those are all I really needed because they are what I wanted to say with the character. I easily could have replaced all that other stuff with these. Stick a number on each, tie in a Humanity stat, provide a Life rating, and I'd be good. (I'd need to be able to shift them, of course.)

1. Own a whorehouse.
2. Heroic despite others' expectations.
3. Master the arts of necromancy.
4. Stay alive.



David,

   That's exactly the kind of thing I'm looking for, but I don't see the need to "stick a number on each".  The only thing I might need in addition to your list is some indication of how important each item is to the player, at the moment.  Maybe just have the player list their Flags in priority order, and be able to drop, add, or change the order of Flags at will?

John

Emily Care:
Quote from: RDU Neil on December 21, 2005, 07:37:59 AM

So many posts on here seem to talk about GM responsibility to working to the player Flags... but what about player responsibility to see the story through... to be responsible for the enjoyment of others at the table, not just their own... to be willing to handle some player disappointment in things that don't play out EXACTLY as they want... essentially taking the bad with the good which is just a fact of life... gaming or real.

Part of what a flag does is that it gives everyone the information about what the player wants to deal with, specifically, with their character.  The rest of the rules say who gets to/has to follow up on that.  Some games spread that all around, look at Primetime Adventures. The character's issue is the quintisenntial flag.  From this, everyone at the table has the opportunity, power & responsibility to follow up via scene framing, conflict resolution and awarding & use of fan mail. 

In Dogs in the  Vineyard, the players are the ones who do most of the work bringing the tagged & flagged issues into play.  The GM gives you a situation that your character will not & cannot ignore, and then you bring to bear the loaded barrels you've put into your character via the narration you give for raises & sees in conflicts. 

And in both these games, it is the GM's responsibility to keep everyone on target, to provide appropriate adversity so that the issues and aspects folks have chosen will sizzle not fizzle. 

Quote

I guess the question is, don't you feel that individual players have responsibility to the positive experience of the group as a whole, and not just to their own short terms whims?
Now that's an interesting question, and may be a good candidate for AP discussion. Techniques can be designed to give players the tools to author their compelling stories, but how are they wedded together & what kind of long-term commitment do they impel people to make?

best,
Em

Navigation

[0] Message Index

[#] Next page

[*] Previous page