Forum changes: Editing of posts has been turned off until further notice.
Started by Ron Edwards, February 11, 2006, 01:04:06 PM
Quote from: Ron Edwards on February 13, 2006, 08:11:17 PMWalt, you nailed it, with the exception of the "permanent" part. Never said that, actually strongly implied and support the opposite.
Quote from: Ron EdwardsAnd recovery or reparability of functions/behaviors is, in some cases, remarkable compared to the extent of the initial impairment.The same points also apply to psychological (i.e. associations, responses, habits) phenomena as well as morphological (i.e. injury with sharp or blunt objects).All of which is a fancy way to say this: nowhere above did I say irreparable brain damage. In fact, rather the opposite.
Quote from: Ron Edwards[In reference to the analogy of child sexual abuse - WF] The person's mind has been damaged while it was forming, and it takes a hell of a lot of re-orientation even for functional repairs (which is not the same as undoing the damage).
Quote from: Ron EdwardsNote that I consider all of this [Indie Narrativist games] explosion to be equivalent to the martial arts stuff performed by the man with only two limbs.
Quote from: Ron EdwardsI call it "damage," and I mean it. People are story-creatures. The characteristic loss of the capacity I see across almost all story-ish role-players, especially those of a certain age range, is like seeing a bunch of people with physical objects sticking out of their punctured skulls. Some of them, presented with alternative (or more accurately, functionally-prosthetic) procedures, say "oh!", extract the damaging material, and move on...
Quote from: Ron Edwards[In reference to story-impaired individuals whom you've 'worked with'] They flounder terribly for weeks, and some just never get it.
Quote from: Ron EdwardsAs some of you know, I am now embarked on an ambitious project based on the idea that we "have limbs" after all, and wondering what the principles underlying the bevy of fantastic new RPGs (and RPG-ish things) would be like, expressed by and for people without the damage. I consider this utter terra incognita, culturally, creatively, and commercially. It cannot and will not have any kind of relevance for gamer culture or commerce. As a survivor of the damage, I may fail miserably. But this topic is not relevant to the present point.
Quote from: Ron Edwards on February 14, 2006, 01:00:47 PMLevi, working on the implied direct question of "can we find common ground regarding terminology," here's my question for you that might help solidify it further. Taking my example of the (say) pre-teen person who experiences sexual contact with an adult, and with any luck having you agree that this person's sexual/romantic development has been functionally interfered with ... do you call this damage? If so, does that mean that you think the person cannot recover from it, perhaps with help?See, I do call that person's experience "damage," and I don't think the term disrespects them - in fact, I think it speaks to the seriousness of their situation. And I really don't think the term is belied or contradicted by then proceeding to talk about recovery, healing, and similar, which I do think is possible. I'm not asking you to adopt the terminology, but I'd like to know your answers to the questions. Perhaps you can find terminology that at least we can agree is talking about the same thing.
Quote from: Ron Edwards on February 11, 2006, 01:04:06 PMI'm going to start with a claim that a human being can routinely understand, enjoy, and (with some practice) create stories.
Quote from: Ron EdwardsPeople are story-creatures.
Quote from: Bankuei on February 14, 2006, 11:50:07 AMRegardless of whether you consider this issue life-affecting, the other social dysfunctions are maladaptations which are guaranteed to teach you nothing good except by how not to do things. Non-communication, passive aggressive antics, using power/fear with people you consider friends or family, shutting yourself off from your own emotions, developing the ability to rationalize to oneself on a regular basis, these are things I can't possibly imagine being things we can dismiss in a haze of personal relativism.This particular style of gaming is akin to taking the social methods of gangs, of pimps, of cults, and importing it directly into your play. I speak from experience here, and ask others to consider dysfunctional behaviors they've seen in their lives and mirroring of social behaviors.