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Sacrilicious: Star Wars as Sorcerer

Started by Bailywolf, May 09, 2002, 08:08:21 PM

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I've been reading spoiler reviews on the new SW film, and as any good geek worth his comic books, I'm sweating to get into the theater and see this thing.  

So I started thinking about the inherent linchpin struggles in Star Wars and I realized...

This is a sorcerer movie.

Now sure, I can hear the screaming.

"Is he mad?"  

"Someone medicate him before he hurts himself...or us!"

"Just smile and back away from the crazy person..."

But seriously.  

The internal struggles highlighed most clearly in the Light Side/Dark Side conflict run throughout the series.  It is all about coming to terms with how you feel...and dealing with it.  Do your emoutions rule you, feed off you, dominate you...or do you accept them, control them, or live with them?  Han and Lea have to come to terms with thei feeling for each other- and the risks involved.  Luke must overcome his hate and anger to become greater than himself....

And you thought Chewy was just a big furry friend of Han?  Hell no!  Chewy is Han's demon, baby (as might The Falcon be considered as well)!

The Force is all sorcery.  Using it puts you right on the threshold of personal destruction.  You want to be a Jedi?  Dangerous are the ways of the force...

Mike Holmes

Um, didn't we do this just a few threads back? And wasn't it also decided that talking about licensed properties in terms of making games from them was a bad idea? Searching, I cannot find the thread, but perhaps it was removed.

I remember something about monks in the revised version.

BTW, Sacralicious? = Deliciously sacriligious?

Member of Indie Netgaming
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Ron Edwards


The word is "sacrilegious."

The thread Mike refers to was in Indie Design, and for the umpteenth time, no, it was not removed. Clinton and I do not remove threads, and have never done so. I would very much appreciate it if people would quit talking as if we do.

Mike is correct about the licensed-properties issue, if we were talking about actually designing a game. Since Bailywolf brought it up as a theoretical issue, I think it's not out of line. However, frankly, I think it's dumb - unless any friendship or personal interaction is "demonic," and if that hogwash perpetrated as philosophy in the SW films is to be considered worth a Sorcerer GM's time.

It's a force generated by living things that holds the universe together? What held it together when the living things hadn't appeared yet?

The Light side is only for defense, not for attack? Oh, I guess it was kind of an oversight when Luke blew up the Death Star.

It's perfectly OK to blow up a planet and kill millions of people as long as you decide you're sorry and change sides when you're losing.

Mitochondria (which is what midichlorions are based on) are channelers of the Force? Excuse me, that is called aerobic respiration and concerns biochemistry, not mystic hoo-ha.

The Lord of the Sith, grand awful Dark Side Jedi dude, really just misses his mommy.

And on, and on.

I'd be happy to discuss Sorcerer regarding warrior monks, the ethics of warrior codes, and romantic complications during empire-shaking revolution. I'd be especially happy if we used the original sources for such things, rather than what I consider to be a fine if derivative trilogy that was never completed (two good movies, made back in the 70s).



Braving the wrath of Ron:

Bailey, I agree, Star Wars would make a cool Sorcerer riff.

Your post made me recall that I had such a thought at some point way back.  I didn't consider the whole "Chewie as a demon" angle, nor would I.  I was playing around with the Force idea as demon, the Jedi/Sith as Sorcerers.

As to Ron's rant about SW, hey, his opinion. I love the movies myself, and won't get anal about the particulars (except in private e-mail, Ron's off on some of what he's complaining about and it makes me itchy).  It's an absolutely lovely myth, a great space-oriented fairy tale.
Rev. Ravenscrye Grey Daegmorgan
Wild Hunt Studio


Oh pish posh poo.  

Ragging on Star Wars is a passtime for some people, but it is an integral part of Americana.  The exibit at the Air and Space Museum in DC several years ago was like a magical hipo ride through my childhood imagination.  

Months & months back I posted a "Lighter Sorcerer" thread because (and I am certainly very guilty of this) Sorcerer leands itself to the dark, ucky, and unpleasant.... but it need not.  Just because SW tends to be thematicaly simple and in many cases a bit too light doesn't automaticaly eleminate it as good Sorcerer inspiration.  

I'll compound my sin now by suggesting that SW makes great Sorcerer and Sword material.  

Ron is shaking his could someone say that?  Didn't he read the definition of S&S from the book?  Grief, how can I go on with lunkheads like this swamping my boards?  

One of the things none of the previous SW games have done is address the mythic elements of Star Wars.  It is fable/faerie tale.  Not really fantasy.  More myth.  Try and analyze Hercules actions by logical standards or common sense, and he hardly comes out coherent.  I think Sorcerer can really get into the thematic bones of the setting better than previous (highly superficial) attempts.

Star Wars really just is.  At least for me.  It represents a fair chunk of my childhood, so I have no real ability to judge it objectively...nor frankly do I want to.  Sure, much of it I would consider crap from any other franchise, but from Star Wars its golden.  

Except for Jar-jar.  He gets Punished...then Banished.

And yes.  Deliciously sacrilegious.  Like getting drunk with a nun.

Russell Hoyle

couldnt...resist....castigate as you wish....nothing to add to Sorcerer-SW discussion.

"mmmm sacrilicious" Isn't this what Homer (Simpson) says when he eats the waffle that was stuck on the ceiling (that he was praying to, mistaking it for God)?

I'll be quiet now.

Ron Edwards


"Pish posh poo" is exactly what I needed to hear. Carry on, gentlemen. After all, the Dune discussion got somewhere and I was even more cranky about that one.

"Pish posh poo" ... I'm still laughing.



As the poster of the allegedly missing Star Wars/Jedi thread I'd just like to confirm that it wasn't deleted. I, of my own free will (if such a thing exists ;-)) renamed it out of respect for the forum policy.

(Of course if I'd actually managed to be thinking when I read the policy I'd've posted without mention star wars in the first place.....)


Hey Ron,

You mean you consider SW more consistent than Dune ??? sacridelirious !!! scary-legious !!! take it back NOW !! :-)

Manu, Sorcerer of Arrakis