Forum changes: Editing of posts has been turned off until further notice.
Started by Ron Edwards, September 16, 2006, 08:14:51 PM
QuoteIt's hard enough as it is for me to preserve my focus on that vision I'm talking about. As far as I'm concerned, the Forge is actually a bit in the red in that regard, relative to its first couple years of existence. Clinton and I do have work to do with what the Forge "is," culturally.
QuoteWe've discussed it. It doesn't prioritize actively building the cultural brand into an institutional one to benefit established companies further. That work has to turn more grass-roots, more punky, and more toward those folks like Doug Bolden, James V. West, Jeff Diamond, and others, as they were back then. (I name these guys because the Forge ultimately failed them, unforgivably on my part, which I see as a far greater indictment of it than Vincent Baker's success is a vindication. Clinton has his own list of casualties. We remember them even if others don't.)That's why the First Thoughts forum is key. I wish more of you guys would spend time there, and use your pride and success in getting your companies off the ground as a fuel for outreach to these guys as they appear or are invited ... and rediscover the chance to learn from them. 'Cause that's where the great ideas really are, out among the wacky little guys who think they're alone in the brush. Not in the modern blogspace and not in the (thank th'Lord defunct) theory forums.
QuoteAlso, what prompts that desire on your part? The desire actually to see an imprint of some kind on your game? The romantic notion of a whole wall of shelves at the game store so your in-group can say "we're as popular as White Wolf"? In other words, what actual benefit are you anticipating?
QuoteLet me give you an actual example. When I first heard about Agon, I was intrigued. I knew it had been developed by John Harper, who is familiar with Forge principles. So when I saw that it had the Antagonist, a GM-like role, I knew that John hadn't put it in because "all RPGs have GMs". He put it in because he felt that the GM role was appropriate and enhanced the game.That's the benefit I see of the Forge brand: it acts roughly as a seal of quality. It reassures the potential buyer, "The author probably knows what he's doing, so this game is probably good." Of course it's not a guarantee, but that's OK with me.I would like to point out that this benefit applies to me. I have no idea whatsoever if it has any meaning to anyone else.
QuoteFor clarity's sake.1. There is no Forge imprint. That's the actual point Clinton and I have made in the past and we'll continue that course. It goes along with a number of other policies, for instance that no one vetts the games at the GenCon booth. The Forge isn't a publisher, or even an official organization.2. Some of you guys are using the term "brand" to mean a cultural phenomenon, which is to say an uncontrollable perception "out there" among people, who say X or Y or Z about the Forge, for good or ill. As I've mentioned before, this is uncontrollable. It's also real. My thinking is that for quite a lot of people who've invested time at the Forge, or been mutualistic about activities there & associated, have benefited from that perception. So, on the balance, well and good.Now, why posts like yours, Kuma, seem to mix up these two notions, I have no idea. They're obviously not the same things. To insist upon and enforce #1 does not limit or damage the benefit of #2. To my thinking, the opposite is the case.
QuoteSo I'm thinking about that, and asking the same questions you are about how the Forge community might be involved, or whether it should be.
Quote from: Ron Edwards on September 16, 2006, 08:14:51 PMThe Game Publishers Association exists for that. You can pay to join, to benefit from the accumulated experience there, and to have their logo on the back of your game. The Forge is run by a different vision in which the organized activity at the site, and associated spin-offs, is what matters. The product (labels on games, imprints, everything) is wholly personally the creator's, and in terms of the Forge, it represents what that game creator wants to take out of the Forge, if anything.