Forum changes: Editing of posts has been turned off until further notice.
Started by Josh Roby, October 02, 2006, 02:36:42 PM
QuoteDogs in the VineyardJesse's character Sebastian is the sole surviving member of his team (it was a solo game), and we're about to start in on the last town on his route. I frame the opening scene as him coming into the cultivated lands around the town, ask him if he's mounted, he says no, and describe him coming down the path with a farmhouse looming above him to the right. Just as he's beneath it, the window shatters and a man comes crashing down to the ground. It's Henry, a relationship from Jesse's sheet. This is, I'm pretty certain, a bang; I used some pretty potent GM Force in determining where Jesse was and when. If I hadn't done that, I couldn't have used the bang.
QuoteFull Light, Full SteamLaura and Ben are playing Gwendolyn and Preston in a small escort ship. They've flown down into an asteroid mining facility and rescued an MP that was stranded there. He says that pirates took over the asteroid and there are many civilian miners and colonists within. The PCs get him on board and fly back out the tunnel to open space. When they get there, the battered pirate dreadnought, much larger than them, is looming above. Do they run, fight, sneak, retreat, et cetera? What about the colonists inside? Is it more important to get the word out that there are active pirates or to immediately help the miners? As the GM, I put up only token opposition getting in, and saved the dreadnought's return for when they would want to get out. I threw a member of parliament high-up muckety-muck and some low-born miners at them to hit their thematic batteries (Preston's Ambitious and Gwendolyn's Cockney, IIRC) and make the decision difficult. Is all of that not Force?
QuoteThe Shadow of YesterdayJudson's GMing (or SGing, whatever). I'm playing a goblin with the Key of Glittering Gold. He has me investigating a ruin and falling into a fabulous pit of treasure. I find my way out only to find that it is, in fact, the treasure-stash of a crazy tribal emperor guy. Said crazy emperor then hits my Key of Renown by asking my character to be his emissary to the civilized lands to the east. Do I serve the guy and get respected for my exalted rank and place? Do I sneak his glittering gold out from under his nose? Do I do both? Judson dumped me into the treasure pit in the opening scene and then used a number of gentle nudges to get the PCs to an interview with the crazy tribal emporer guy. As a player, I had some big difficulties overcoming the place that he'd put me, because it wasn't where I had originally seen my character going at all. The bang was a potent double-bind, and very effective, but couldn't have happened without Judson's positioning. Was that not GM Force?
QuoteSo, to recap the question, I don't have a problem with bangs at all and think they're spiffykeen. What I am wondering at, however, if the GM needs to apply some measure of Force in order to get to the interesting bits of the bangs.
QuoteIs there some 'acceptable level' of GM Force in the bang-structured game? Is bang-structure advocating short bursts of illusionism to get to the very non-predetermined decisions that the PCs make in the bangs?
Quote from: Joshua BishopRoby on October 02, 2006, 05:09:59 PMIn the TSOY example, we had an agressive frame (you're investigating a ruin! you fall down a chute!) and then some prodding by Judson much like he outlines above. I don't get the impression that my character walking away would have 'worked' for the game; it's my impression that that would have necessitated some scrambling on his part (although Judson could correct me if I'm wrong). But he'd baited the hook with big piles of gold, so it was not likely that I'd walk away. How much of his reliance on my character pursuing his keys is surrepticious (and beneficial) Force?
Quote from: Ron Edwards on October 02, 2006, 05:52:22 PMAs long as we stick with actual play examples, this gets somewhere.
QuoteJoshua, I can't talk to you about "what if this? what if that?" I keep saying, given an actual instance of play, you can too tell if the GM overrode opportunity for player input which the player thought he had.
QuoteI'm going to tackle all this from a different angle entirely. Consider this dialogue, from a Hero Wars session:[player-characters show up at a social gathering]Me: [describes physical setting and (friendly) demeanor of NPCs]Tod: [gets irked] But I'm not being nice at all! I'm saying right off ..."Me: Hey, that was just Color, you can have your guy enter into the scene however you want. Tod: Oh! OK, let me know when.Was I using Force? No. Tod would have me for breakfast in any RPG situation if I tried, and you can see that outlook here. He was concerned that my scene-framing was grading into playing his character for him, assuming a particular behavior or actions upon entering the room. However, as long as he knew that my waxing eloquent about the scene could not replace the input that he had every intention of delivering, he was good with it. Notice as well that he did not automatically assume that I was overriding him and get angry about it. He simply checked in to see where I stood.
QuoteI'm getting the idea that such explicit checking-in, verbally, during play itself, has not been a big part of your role-playing experiences. Is that right?