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Author Topic: [DitV] Giving, Taking it and Multiple Opponents  (Read 1866 times)
Ludanto
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Posts: 67


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« on: November 22, 2006, 03:20:14 PM »

Here's a question that's come up for me.

Let's say that Player 2 hooks my ankle and throws me over into my brother, Zeke.  Maybe I take it and he blocks it.  Fine.  But what if I Block/Dodge it?  Zeke was named at a "target" but there's nothing for him to block or dodge.  Does he just pretend it never happened?  What about something less direct?  Player 2 throws a torch into a friend's house.  Both Zeke and want to keep that from happening (let's say the stakes are about forcing the family out of the house).  Now either of us could block the torch, but that leaves the other with nothing to block.  Does it fall to whoever calls it first?  Best pair order maybe, if nobody steps up?

And another.

What happens when you have enough dice to Block/Dodge, but you can't narrate it sufficiently.  You don't want to Give, so you Take the Blow, but what dice do you use?  Just the two, (do you take 2 fallout anyway?) or do you waste an extra die for the priveledge of not Giving?  Something else perhaps?

Thanks
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Glendower
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Posts: 182

My name is Jon.


« Reply #1 on: November 23, 2006, 05:54:37 AM »

What happens when you have enough dice to Block/Dodge, but you can't narrate it sufficiently.  You don't want to Give, so you Take the Blow, but what dice do you use?  Just the two, (do you take 2 fallout anyway?) or do you waste an extra die for the priveledge of not Giving?  Something else perhaps?


Could you give a specific example in actual play of where you couldn't narrate a block/dodge?

As far as mechanics are concerned, two dice is a block or dodge.  Three or more dice is taking the blow, causing fallout.  The way I look at it, two dice means there are no consequences to the raise.  Three dice means there are consequences.  The thing with this is that you could narrate getting shot, for example, and have the bullet hit.  For the block, it could be "just a flesh wound".  For a taking the blow, it could be "the bullet hits hard, and the flesh wound bleeds".  The bullet did the same thing each time, but with taking the blow you decide that the character is going to hurt afterwards, maybe even die.

Hell, you could have it be "just a flesh wound" in both cases.  I remember in Romeo and Juliet, when Mercutio gets cut.  "tis but a scratch!"  That scratch was taking the blow, and that scratch killed him after he won the conflict "does Tybalt kill Romeo?".
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Brand_Robins
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« Reply #2 on: November 23, 2006, 07:06:26 AM »

As for the "if you both want to block and only one of you can" issue, I usually resolve that either by best pair getting the ability to block, or having the players decide between themselves who gets to. Often one of them has a really cool block and the other doesn't, and that'll settle that.

Not all raises that could hit multiple targets have to be blocked by every possible target. Go with what makes sense and what the group thinks feels right.
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- Brand Robins
Tim M Ralphs
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« Reply #3 on: November 23, 2006, 07:15:42 AM »

x posted with Brand

Example 1, Zeke doesn't just ignore it. It's a legit raise, he's a target, so he has to match the raise or give. In the example he doesn't have great dice, so he's taking the blow. You've dodged. Now we create a fiction that fits, either: "Player 2 hooks my ankle, and sends me flying. My brother used to do that all the time, so I land on my feet and I'm right back at him." Then Zeke says "Yeah, you didn't just land on your own feet, you managed to bounce off me along the way."
or
"I dodge, Player 2 misses my ankle." "Player 2 uses his momentum to carry on the charge straight into Zeke who goes flying." Sure, in this case I've altered the raise, but the fiction and the flow are preserved, so I think we're cool.

Example 2, Player 2 throws a tourch into a friends house. Let's just restate the context of what we're talking about: The tourch being thrown is a raise, and there's a bigger conflict at stake. Saying that both Zeke and I don't want the torch to go in the house is a red herring, what we want is to win the conflict, the question is whether we've got the dice and are prepared to use them.

In terms of the mechanics the torch throwing is a raise against both Zeke and I, so we both have to meet that raise.Without knowing what that conflict is it's hard to address this point, so let's add some more details. Player 2 is trying to escape from town. We're chasing him. His raise, he throws a torch into a nearby house. If we want to keep chasing him we have to meet that raise. If we both give, then maybe we stop to put the fire out and heroically rescue the occupants of the house, but Player 2 gets away. If I block the raise and Zeke gives, maybe I ignore the torch but he decides to stay and fight the fire. If we both block, maybe the torch sails through the window into a pot of soup and goes out. If I block but Zeke takes the blow maybe the house catches fire and Zeke is haunted by the knowledge that he should have stopped, whilst I am less affected. (When my groups play Dogs, a lot of the details are negotiated as and when all the relevant dice are rolled, so specifics can and do change. This helps with matching the descriptions to the dice, but it isn't necessary.)

Your third question about taking the blow is really significant. If you have the dice to block or dodge and you use them to block or dodge then whatever you narrate is a block or dodge. You don't take fall out, it's not taking the blow. Dogs is the only system I've gamed with where the dice empower player actions like this. As an example, my mother tells me what a horrible son I am for not supporting the family and running off to have fun at 'Dog school.' I block the raise, but I can't think of anything to say, so I just stand there in silence and let her words hang in the air. She looks at me in my coat, realises she's speaking without thinking and bursts into tears. Bam, blocked without me doing anything.

Also remember that everyone is allowed to make suggestions and feed off each others ideas. I find it really hard to believe you've got a situation where no-one in the room can think of a good block or dodge.

Oh, and lastly, thanks for your questions to Vincent about Afraid. I'm running some in a weeks time, and it's been good to know what to watch out for. I'm 'borrowing' your unprepared is d4 belongings thing if that's cool.
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Ludanto
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« Reply #4 on: November 23, 2006, 10:45:46 AM »

Thanks for the input, guys.

Vincent has said something along the lines of "if you can't narrate a beleivable response (or lack thereof), you'll just have to Give, regardless of what dice you have", if I remember correctly.  Of course, suggestions from the peanut gallery and other negotiations can work around alot of these issues I suppose.

It's a little trickier for me because I'm running my game in a Play By Post forum, and you don't get as much back-and-forth as you do at the table (though I'm trying to find players locally).  It's slow, but it's better than nothing, and it gives me plenty of time to consider all of these little questions. :)

Good luck with Afraid.  It seems pretty cool, though I'm still having trouble making use of "non-present" research-style conflicts, with things happening that the players wouldn't know anything about and aren't there for.  And First Aid conflicts ;).  And geez!  Coming up with a decent monster, or slave gifts and bonds is about hard!
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