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275647 Posts in 27717 Topics by 4285 Members Latest Member: - Jason DAngelo Most online today: 68 - most online ever: 565 (October 17, 2020, 02:08:06 PM)
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Author Topic: Miniatures-Driven Roleplaying Rules  (Read 11431 times)
Darcy Burgess
Member

Posts: 476


« Reply #30 on: February 27, 2007, 03:00:51 AM »

Hi Calithena,

Another thought popped into my head, and it may have done so in parallel to Troy's last post.

1. Pick a 'non-combat' type of scene (MrAtomek's example of "can I convince my girlfriend that I'm not the Green Ghost" is a reasonable starting point).

2. Decide how you'd use miniatures in that scene.  Not in a "um, my guy is here, she's here, so let's put their minis on the 'apartment' map.  Sitting.  Doing nothing."

Once you've sorted that out, I bet that you'll have the game in the bag.

Cheers,
Darcy
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Black Cadillacs - Your soapbox about War.  Use it.
Calithena
Acts of Evil Playtesters
Member

Posts: 336

aka Sean


« Reply #31 on: February 27, 2007, 06:24:28 AM »

1) It's OK with me if we use this thread as a coordination/linkage thread, and I can't see why on earth Ron or Clinton would object, though if they do they'll let us know.

2) However, I would say that we should start gradually tapering off general discussion here if we're going to use it that way. The thing to do of course is to go to other First Thoughts or Actual Play threads (linked here) where specific ideas are pursued in a concrete play or design process, followed by Endeavor when we actually have something written up, etc.

3) I agree that there are (at least) two paths represented here and I like what Troy and Darcy have to say about this. I would say that Krasnoarmeets seems in some ways to straddle the line between them so that may be a valuable model to learn from. I fully endorse the idea of 'uplifted children's play' (though I'd want to get that spirit even into a skirmish minis RPG, to be honest, and I think that some '70's D&D material actually is still useful for inspiration if not solutions on this problem) and I think that every answer to Darcy's question is going to represent a genuine design opportunity on these lines.
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komradebob
Member

Posts: 462


« Reply #32 on: February 27, 2007, 08:32:02 AM »

Maybe the first step is to define certain types of RPG scenes. Look at how the miniature's features can affect the scene. It's quite possible that this type of "miniature driven RPG" is actually an attempt to uplift make-believe with Transformers, GI-Joes and LEGO figs.. All of that was fun when I was a child with a creative mind. I'm not sure adults can handle the open-mindedness and playfulness that is required to pick up a fig and really see something fantastic beyond the strategic value in competition.


Wait- Adults or Gamers?

I don't mean to be mean, but really, this is a gamer issue, not an adult issue.
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Robert Earley-Clark

currently developing:The Village Game:Family storytelling with toys
mratomek
Member

Posts: 165


WWW
« Reply #33 on: February 27, 2007, 10:19:44 AM »

Here's something that pops to mind and is an issue with "RPGing" miniatures: Time and Space.

An RPG has a much greater ability to change the setting than a miniature wargame. And by "setting" I mean with a short paragraph, a group of characters can be transported anywhere in existence. And a short paragraph later, the characters are back.

Shifting around tabletop terrain in a similar manner would not be as easy and probably is impossible. It takes time to setup a scene.

Furthermore, if a character's physical location on the table does not create any added tension, then it really isn't going to be fun to play that on the table top. For example, your character has to travel 12" across the street and talk to a civilian. Well, there is no need to play that out. That is why I developed the Complication. A verbal form of play that is used to setup subsequent minis gaming.

However, if a character had to work his way across a flast flowing river filled with big pieces of ice--jumping from ice to ice--to work his way across to a civillian--well, that would be fun to play on the game board. Add some ferocious wolves chasing your character, and it could be even more interesting.

But, you can't always include tension building elements to relatively insignificant actions. Sometimes, a conversation is just that. So having some form of verbal play to help propel a story forward without needing to setup the whole scene on the tabletop is fun and has worked well in the games I have played with Super Force Seven.

MrAtomek



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MrAtomek

Once upon a time ... the Earth needed to be saved ... on a regular basis.

Super Force Seven
Tactical RPG / Miniatures Wargame

www.superforceseven.com
mratomek
Member

Posts: 165


WWW
« Reply #34 on: February 27, 2007, 10:26:19 AM »

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MrAtomek

Once upon a time ... the Earth needed to be saved ... on a regular basis.

Super Force Seven
Tactical RPG / Miniatures Wargame

www.superforceseven.com
komradebob
Member

Posts: 462


« Reply #35 on: February 28, 2007, 11:52:39 AM »

Total Tangent:
"Uplifted Kids' Play" is one of the best descriptions I've ever heard for this sort of thing. ( Even if it took me a few minutes to make the connection, having skipped the Uplift novels...)
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Robert Earley-Clark

currently developing:The Village Game:Family storytelling with toys
komradebob
Member

Posts: 462


« Reply #36 on: March 02, 2007, 04:35:00 PM »

Here are some older threads dealing with minis and rpgs that I either was involved in, started, or reference for ideas.



Thoughts on New Directions (Me)

KrasnoArmeets Feedback thread ( James Holloway's Game)

Tears Like Rain A one shot plastic cowboys and indians game I made using Matrix Game rules.

F Scott Banks talks about a minis/ccg hybrid idea

Discussion of my "Village Game"

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Robert Earley-Clark

currently developing:The Village Game:Family storytelling with toys
David Artman
Member

Posts: 570

Designer & Producer


WWW
« Reply #37 on: March 05, 2007, 07:44:38 AM »

Hopefully, this is getting closer to the original topic--it's definitely related, though not as much about tactics as it is about RP with "minis":

I am a Looney Labs Demo Rabbit, primarily designing and presenting Icehouse Pyramid games at cons and hobby stores (and bars).

A buddy of mine and I have begun talking about how to use pyramids in an RPG, where each player would "create a character" by spending points to build a stack of pyramids. The position of the pyramid in the stack dictates the function as it pertains to both combat/tactical situations and social/RP situations:
Grounded Pieces - Every piece which touches the ground is considered a "movement ability." The color of the piece determines the medium through which it applies, the size (pip count) of the piece determines range. As a total of three pieces could potentially be grounded (a small under a medium under a large), it is possible to devise a LOT of combinations of movement abilities.
Topmost Pieces - The topmost piece and the next piece that it touches in the stack determines mental and/or social abilities that the character possesses. Size and color again determine effect--color, probably for type of effect; size for power/skill level. (Remember: this is a work in progress--nothing is really "firmed up.")
Body Pieces - Everything between the topmost pieces and the grounded pieces is the character's "body." Color and size determine both what the character can do and what the character's defenses are.

Character development comes through using Rewards (more points to spend) to position new pieces in your stack, at the top, bottom, or in the body.

Character injuries, dimishment (aging, disease, persistent effects), and death come from the loss of pieces in the stack. This has some neat knock-on effects:
1) Lose your topmost, and you're principle mind/social abilities change to the next two topmost in the stack.
2) Lose a bottom piece and your whole movement capability could change.
3) Lose body pieces and see the effects of "damage" eliminate or change your core abilities.

Now, keep in mind that there are currently 11 different colors of Icehouse Pyramids, and you can imagine how many possible "skills" or "points of contact" the system would have. This is why, I feel, it could go beyond mere tactics: there are not that many meaningful tactical movements, if combat is fairly granular. SO, a LOT of those body pieces would support "traditional" social skills like Intimidation, Seduction, etc.

As for the (conflict/task) resolution system... well, I did say it was a work in progress.

I guess, mainly, I wanted to (a) inspire your thoughts about minis and their evolution in play and (b) "tag" this thread, to watch it. Wink

Regarding point (a), perhaps you'd do better to move away from classic lead/plastic minis and look towards the more versatile, posable action figures or even 12" figs? Those figures can be made to hold different items and, sometimes, even support different clothes and what-not. And there's nothing that says you couldn't supplement their paint (white streaks in hair for aging). The utility/flexibility of the Icehouse Pyramids RRG, after all, comes from how easy it is to alter a stack....

HTH;
David
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Designer - GLASS, Icehouse Games
Editor - Perfect, Passages
David Artman
Member

Posts: 570

Designer & Producer


WWW
« Reply #38 on: March 05, 2007, 09:17:43 AM »

AND... I had to go ahead and start the wiki development process, at Icehouse.org:
http://icehousegames.org/wiki/?title=RPG

If this helps, great; if not, sorry to derail....
David
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Designer - GLASS, Icehouse Games
Editor - Perfect, Passages
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