*
*
Home
Help
Login
Register
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
October 26, 2021, 04:56:39 PM

Login with username, password and session length
Forum changes: Editing of posts has been turned off until further notice.
Search:     Advanced search
275647 Posts in 27717 Topics by 4285 Members Latest Member: - Jason DAngelo Most online today: 72 - most online ever: 565 (October 17, 2020, 02:08:06 PM)
Pages: [1]
Print
Author Topic: DitV Conflict Flowchart  (Read 4614 times)
Archer5280
Member

Posts: 17


« on: May 04, 2007, 06:22:56 PM »

Hello, all!

I am brand new to DitV, and this is my first post on this forum. However, I am trying to run an introductory online DitV game. So, to help me and my players keep track of things, I created this conflict flowchart. Please take this apart and tell me what I'm missing. I'm sure I can't have it all just right. Smiley


Logged

PbP HOUSE. Games Live Here.
High-quality play-by-post roleplaying.
Darren Hill
Member

Posts: 861


« Reply #1 on: May 04, 2007, 07:25:44 PM »

It's very good.
One thing: I've found that flowcharts like this only help the graphically minded, or ex-computer programmers. There's a fair subsection of gamers who will just look at it blankly.

"Whoever opens the conflict makes the first Raise"
- I'd recommend having something somewhere like, "A Raise is both a description, and the dice put forward." One thing that trips some new players up is they overlook the importance of the description.

"Can't Raise or Can't See a Raise"
- I'd also have the option of deciding not to raise or see be explicitly mentioned, as in "Can't or Won't Raise or See"

Logged

Archer5280
Member

Posts: 17


« Reply #2 on: May 04, 2007, 08:06:35 PM »

One thing: I've found that flowcharts like this only help the graphically minded, or ex-computer programmers. There's a fair subsection of gamers who will just look at it blankly.

That's a fair comment, and understood. This is only one tool, and it's as much to help me as anyone. Smiley 



As for your other comments, those are also good recommendations. Thanks.
Logged

PbP HOUSE. Games Live Here.
High-quality play-by-post roleplaying.
oliof
Member

Posts: 449

Harald Wagener - Zurich, Switzerland


WWW
« Reply #3 on: May 07, 2007, 03:22:29 AM »

I seem to recall that the person with the highest pair of dice begins the conflict (without necessarily using the highest pair). Has that changed?
Logged

Web_Weaver
Member

Posts: 215


WWW
« Reply #4 on: May 07, 2007, 03:14:30 PM »

Hi,

A current implication from the flowchart is one can only escalate if not able to raise or see, which would be misleading.

I would also have a box after "Give on your turn to see" which says something like "Opponents raise is negated"
Logged

Archer5280
Member

Posts: 17


« Reply #5 on: May 07, 2007, 05:14:59 PM »

I seem to recall that the person with the highest pair of dice begins the conflict (without necessarily using the highest pair). Has that changed?

That's my understanding of the official rules. This particular flowchart was created for a play-by-post game, however. Strict "initiative order", if you want to call it that, doesn't work very well for forum gaming, though, so I left it off the flowchart.

A current implication from the flowchart is one can only escalate if not able to raise or see, which would be misleading.

Yes, Darren mentioned that previously in the thread. I definitely plan to change it.

I would also have a box after "Give on your turn to see" which says something like "Opponents raise is negated"

Very good point. I'll add that. Thanks.
Logged

PbP HOUSE. Games Live Here.
High-quality play-by-post roleplaying.
Karl
Member

Posts: 11


« Reply #6 on: May 07, 2007, 08:27:04 PM »

Hi

This diagram is an excellent thing. I love diagrams! And I love DitV! So together.... woohoo!

Basically very cool. I do have some kind of dramatic suggestions though.... intended solely as constructive!

I think it is important to show how the narrative structure is interwoven with the mechanical options. This interconnection is one of the big reaons why DitV rocks, IMO.

Thus, I personally would make a much bigger deal out of the basic choice coming out of the 'Take turns Raising and Seeing' box. You've indicated it with red and green coloring of the arrows, which is cool. But I'd go for something much more visually dramatic.

Say two big thick arrows 'Conflict continues' and 'Conflict ends' or something along those lines. With all options positioned below the 'Take Turns' box, the two divisions using half the page width each. Each Big Arrow could have smaller colored lines indicating the various ways things flow in that direction.

I'd kinda like to see some further indication of the narrative implications as a label for each line. 'Reverser narrates', 'Dodger narrates', 'Raiser narrates' etc. Probably that's already covered pretty well.

Out of the Red Arrow, I'd make a big deal of Giving as an important narrative choice, not just one forced on you by running out of dice. It should go above the Red Arrow rather than below it.

Also I think it's very important to add  'Stakes are resolved', between Giving and Fallout. I don't think that's even mentioned currently?

Yay! A DitV flow diagram!

Cheers
Karl
Logged
Yokiboy
Member

Posts: 363


WWW
« Reply #7 on: May 08, 2007, 01:38:07 AM »

Hello (I'm not familiar with your name "Archer"),

I really love flowcharts and wish you had made this two years ago, but I will keep it around for new players. Great work!

One piece of feedback, in addition to what the others have already suggested. Where you say "Give on your turn to See" or "Give on your turn to Raise", make it sound like your giving to See or Raise. How about phrasing it like this instead:

"If you Give when it is your turn to See" or "If you Give when it is your turn to Raise".

TTFN,

Yoki
Logged

EarthSea
Member

Posts: 3


« Reply #8 on: May 08, 2007, 07:49:48 AM »

I believe in the fallout section of your chart a roll of less than 8 gets something from the short term list rather than the laong term list as you show.
Logged
Archer5280
Member

Posts: 17


« Reply #9 on: May 11, 2007, 01:37:59 AM »

Thanks for all the great feedback, everybody. This has been very helpful. I made several changes, and I have a few comments, as well.

First, one general comment: I know this flowchart boils the rules down to dry mechanics, but that's the point of it. For my players, this flowchart is accompanied by the statement that you never do anything without a good narrative to back it up. So, definitely all the comments about narrative components to these little mechanical boxes are very good. However, it pretty much applies to every box, so I don't think it's necessary to repeat it...at least for my players in this particular game.

I would like this to be a general tool that any DitV player or GM could use. However, remember that my game in particular is a play-by-post game. Play-by-post/play-by-forum gaming is all about narrative and story. Getting the mechanics right is actually much more difficult than getting the narrative right in that format. It's sort of the opposite of a lot of tabletop gaming environments. That's why I'm focused just on mechanics in this particular tool. (I use other tools to beat them over the head with narrative. Wink )


Hello (I'm not familiar with your name "Archer"),

Hello! Yes. I'm new here. Smiley

One piece of feedback, in addition to what the others have already suggested. Where you say "Give on your turn to See" or "Give on your turn to Raise", make it sound like your giving to See or Raise. How about phrasing it like this instead:

"If you Give when it is your turn to See" or "If you Give when it is your turn to Raise".

I made a change similar to this. See if it works better for you.

Also I think it's very important to add  'Stakes are resolved', between Giving and Fallout. I don't think that's even mentioned currently?

Done. Thanks.


I believe in the fallout section of your chart a roll of less than 8 gets something from the short term list rather than the laong term list as you show.

Good catch. I actually removed this whole list and the one about which Stats to roll for various Arenas. They took up too much space and are covered sufficiently elsewhere.

"Can't Raise or Can't See a Raise"
- I'd also have the option of deciding not to raise or see be explicitly mentioned, as in "Can't or Won't Raise or See"


Done. Thank you.


I seem to recall that the person with the highest pair of dice begins the conflict (without necessarily using the highest pair). Has that changed?

That's my understanding of the official rules. This particular flowchart was created for a play-by-post game, however. Strict "initiative order", if you want to call it that, doesn't work very well for forum gaming, though, so I left it off the flowchart.

OK, looking at this again, I'm confused. On DitV p. 93, it says "Whoever opens the conflict does the first Raise." So, is the person who opens the conflict the person with the highest pair, or the person who actually initiates the conflict to begin with?

Logged

PbP HOUSE. Games Live Here.
High-quality play-by-post roleplaying.
Archer5280
Member

Posts: 17


« Reply #10 on: May 11, 2007, 01:45:11 AM »

Hmmm.... The forum seems to be caching a copy, maybe? I don't see it updating. Here's the updated one:


Logged

PbP HOUSE. Games Live Here.
High-quality play-by-post roleplaying.
Pages: [1]
Print
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.11 | SMF © 2006-2009, Simple Machines LLC
Oxygen design by Bloc
Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!