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Started by James_Nostack, March 07, 2010, 01:00:00 PM
Quote from: James_Nostack on March 09, 2010, 10:18:55 PMThere were a few people posting here who were saying (I'm paraphrasing!) "Hey, if strangers sit down at my table, I am perfectly willing to their shit up, with or without their consent, with or without prior notice. It's on them to object." And I guess my question is, "Really? Are you that way in other parts of your life too? If not, why's gaming unique in this regard?"
Quote from: Larry L. on March 10, 2010, 02:31:56 PMThe teleconferencing part actually strikes me as the key factor here. There's a ton of non-explicit social cues built into ordinary human social interaction which are undoubtedly not being transmitted via the technology. Any of which might have ordinarily mitigated the situation into something less uncool. A funny "Oh really?" raise of the eyebrows, a tensing of body posture.Is this non-obvious? I'm finding myself working up a rant about this, and I'm not really sure why.
QuoteI say this because - as my explanation and Ron's anecdote make plain, there are all kinds of reasons that someone might not object. For example: if I speak up, will any of the other players back me up? If I speak up, what if it only makes things worse? Etc etc. If this behavior correlates with a social power gradient, placing the entirety of the burden on the aggrieved party pretty much means that you're going to get under-reporting, because the very people likely to be victims (not saying I was a victim of much, just frustrated) are the people who will be least effective at getting redress.
QuoteThe teleconferencing part actually strikes me as the key factor here. There's a ton of non-explicit social cues built into ordinary human social interaction which are undoubtedly not being transmitted via the technology. Any of which might have ordinarily mitigated the situation into something less uncool.
QuoteYou are correct that there are all sorts of good and valid reasons someone might not voice an objection when their boundaries are violated, and that speaking up can be problematic...but if I don't know, and they don't say...then, yeah, really, it is up to them to object, isn't it? And if not, then...what?
QuoteAt Thanksgiving, my family and I learned that our friend who was due to pick us up at the airport could not do it, and we were suddenly without a ride home. Our plane landed at around 9 o'clock. Desperate, we compiled a list of friends who lived near the airport and us, and began calling. The first person on a list of about 10 said she could pick us up.When we arrived, her kids were in the car, struggling to stay awake, and it was raining. She was in a pissy mood all the way home, and then the next day at work, lambasted my wife for asking her to do such a thing. My wife responded that her friend wasn't the only person on the list, and that she could have said 'no'. Friend replied that my wife should have never even asked.This ended up causing a problem betwen my wife and her friend - my wife is a giving person and would do anything to help a friend in need, and so was deeply hurt to learn that her friend did not reciprocate, but importantly, it created a trust issue -- now my wife can't be sure when friend means what she says, because friend said "yes" when she meant "no".