Forum changes: Editing of posts has been turned off until further notice.
Started by Spikor, August 13, 2002, 12:29:59 PM
Quote from: ValamirBob no one is argueing any of that, so your straw man is entirely unwarranted.What was being discussed was the quality of swords and armor put out by late medieval to renaissance era smiths.Further, Gallileo could be persecuted for his astronomical theories because the noble lords didn't care. Weapons and armor is something the noble lords DID care about and on that issue the church's track record on supression (witness the laws forbidding fighting on Sunday, and the use of the crossbow) was almost entirely ineffective.
QuoteAside of a new wave of revisionist history,..
Quoteit has never been doubted (certainly not by the people of the period...!) that much was lost in the gap between the fall of the empire and the renaissance.
QuoteSome people DID disagree with Columbus: the common sailors who manned his ships. They, at the very least, were afraid of sailing off the edge of the world. Columbus was himself a renaissance explorer, and (of course!) the learned renaissance men of his time were unlikely to disagree about the shape of the world,..
Quote... but the "flat world" conception still largely held sway among the common people, as it had among even noblemen and scholars in times not too far previous.
Quote from: JaifQuoteI'll have to reread books - I'd like to know which sailors and what their stories are and how we know their beliefs. However, it's rather immaterial: saying that the 'average' person in the middle ages was uneducated is vastly different than saying Europe was behind technologically. The fact remains that Christopher Columbus set sail in ships of a design far in advance of Roman ships.-JeffWhy on Earth are we talking about Columbus? The man lived in the middle of the Renaissance, after some VERY important developments in shipbuilding and navigation. Of COURSE his ships were superior to Roman vessels. For a truly pre-renaissance period, we need to back up about 200 years.
QuoteI'll have to reread books - I'd like to know which sailors and what their stories are and how we know their beliefs. However, it's rather immaterial: saying that the 'average' person in the middle ages was uneducated is vastly different than saying Europe was behind technologically. The fact remains that Christopher Columbus set sail in ships of a design far in advance of Roman ships.-Jeff
QuoteInteresting. I wouldn't go so far as to say that Europe had no scientific progress, but, let's admit that they weren't up to par with their contemporaries in many fields.
QuoteOne last point, and this one mostly my opinion based on admittadly a small amount of reading (I'm no historian). My view of the middle ages is through an economic lens: specifically, the middle ages in europe was a time of economic depression, when the old latin economic systems were broken by the arab Jihad. Unlike capitalist America, the Europeans of the time were unable to simply shrug this off after 10, 15, whatever years. Instead, it took hundreds of years of fighting and technicological growth to overcome the situation.