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combat question: multiple actions

Started by Bailywolf, September 28, 2002, 06:13:01 PM

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I have a question about multiple actions taken in a round of Sorcerer combat, and to a lesser extent the Fast demon ability.  

On page 112 in the MRB, there is a bullet about penalizing multiple actions, and it mentions a single roll.

I take this to mean a player can describe what in other games would amount to a second attack or attack-equilivent action in a single round using only a single action roll.  

Also mentioned is that users of the Fast ability can take some more action than others in a round... but how much?  Does Fast cancel penalties for multiple actions?  Is Fast added to the action score for initiative purposes only?  Does Fast add to the high rolled die?  The description says it is rolled instead of the user's Stamina...but if Stamina is as good or better than the demon's Power, then what good is it?  

An example as I read this:

Princess Mi of the Shadow Clan (S5/W3/L2/H4/P-Noble-5) is ambushed by 3 asassins from the Wave Clan (S3/W2/L0/H3/P-Assassin-3).  She has mastered the Shadow Form, a dangerous and powerful martial art which imbues her with a living supernatural power (parasite S4/W5/L4/P5- Fast, Travel+Transport, Hold, Armor....needs Constant Pracitce...desires Dominance over other Forms)

Everyone rolls

Princess Mi (with some nicely described Kung Fu action is going for a simultaneous attack on all 3 mooks...the GM penalizes her 3 dice, but the description makes up for 2 of these) 9,8,8,5

Assassin 1  7,6,5
Assassin 2  10,3,2
Assassin 3  9,8,6

High roll goes to Assassin 2 with his 10, then to Mi, then to Assassin 3, then to Assassin 1.  

Mi doesn't want to abort her attack, so she decides to take rely on her Flesh of Shadow technique (armor) to protect her from the assassins' knives.  She rolls 1 die, getting 6, and thus giving Assassin 2 a single victory with this attack.  She takes one penalty for the next action, and one lasting penalty.  

Next Mi resolves her attack.  Assassin 2 is stuck with a single die defense and rolls a 2, but 1 & 3 abort.  1 rolls 8,8,3.  3 rolls 9,8,6.  Against 2 that is 4 victories (total), 3 against 1 and 2 against assassin 3.  

Since these guys were one-hit wonders, Mi makes short work of them.  After identifying their teacher (with a Will roll to identify their fighting syle) she uses her Form's Shadwo Step technique to travel back to her school to practice and train.  A reconing will soon come with Crashing Chan of the Wave Clan, and she wants her Shadow Form to be perfect.

OK, questions.  How could have the Fast ability have been used in the above combat example?  Further, was that extrapolation on multiple actions correct?  




Hey, I just found the answers to my Fast questions in this thread:

But the multiple action question still remains.



Ron Edwards

Hi Ben,

Whew! I was just dreading hunting down that thread, so thanks for looking for it.

OK, the multiple-actions thing. My usual take on this is not to consider attacks eligible for multiple actions, with a couple of exceptions. Let me lay it out ...

1) Adding "actions" means things like movement, positioning, fumbling out the walkie-talkie, shouting quick information (although a demon-command is a full action), and whatever auxiliary motions are part of an attack (flipping one's coat over a guy's head, etc).

2) Exception: secondary effects of attacks, like knocking thug A (your one attack) into thug B ... this works fine; I'd treat as a plain and simple roll-over of victories on your roll into more dice for whoever's attacking thug B, this round or next round.

3) Very alternative exception: one could do the Star Wars thing and permit multiple targets, by racking the dice down per opponent, which is pretty much what you did for the Princess' multiple-opponent strikes in your example, if I'm reading it correctly. I'm not too comfortable with this option as it creates a round-within-a-round.



Thanks Ron.  

For multiple attacks I'm considering the following house-rule. (my Dreamlaands things is becoming increasingly quasi-wuxia exotica blended with baroque S&S decadance).  I've played a few simulations with it (not real playtest, but fairly close) with Mi against a bunch of nameless mooks, against a big demon-eagle-lobster, agianst other named characters (a half-breed Oni blue-skinned sorcerer & against another martial artist), and against the Devil Three (three mercenary Minions)

-1 Die to target each Cardstock character beyond the first
-3 Dice to target each Minion beyond the first
No targeting more than one Heavy per action.

* A cardstock character is a second-rate foe- one hit wonders.
* A Minion has full stats and a name, but isn't on par with the PC's or their major adverseries.
* A Heavy is a PC (or better than PC) character.

** Only PC's and Heavies can make multiple attacks.

** As always, the player describes his intended action as colorfuly as possible [taking the idiom of the game into account]-
I leap forward using Dragon Striding Pose, but at mid-leap, whip my legs up into Fire Blossom Blooms striking the two assassins before me, then tucking my knees in to crash down upon the third assassin with Unseen Hammer.   -
Bonus dice are used to off-set the milti-attack penalty.  

** If a character who is attempting multiple attacks aborts to a full defense action, then all the attacks are lost.

Another dodge for mass mook fighting I was considering is a Mob Rule.  Esentialy, I treat groups of attackers as a single attacker for the purposes of combat.  Rating a mob like so:

Poor (5 Members per point of Stamina)
Fair (3 Members per point of Stamina)
Good (1 Member per point of Stamina)
Solid (1 Member per 2 Points of Stamina)

Poor (Will 1)
Fair (Will 2)
Good (Will 3)
Solid (Will 4)

Clueless (lore 0)
Touched (lore 1)
Cult (lore 2)

Permenant damage reduces the Mob's Stamina, so you get an idea how many individuals have been knocked out of the combat.   Some mobs can do sorcery so long as  they act as a group in ritual magic.  

Angry Peasants (30 members)
Poor Fitness
Fair Drive
Clueless Insight



The Demon Three (three members)
Solid Vitality
Solid Drive
Cult Insight


Using this, its east to create demon mobs as well.  Just extrapolate the number of Members based on the demon's Stamina and a decision about the demon mob's Fitness.

Ron Edwards

Hi Ben,

I think the Cardstock/Minion/Heavy distinction works, but as you might imagine, it's a bit nuanced for me ... it's a good example of a suitable house rule, though.

The mob concept seems excellent to me - good Hero Wars influence goin' on there. It suits the Sorcerer system a bit better to my taste as well.