Forum changes: Editing of posts has been turned off until further notice.
Started by Christoffer Lernö, April 13, 2003, 09:56:42 PM
Quote from: SidhainSo answer me this--in all honesty---Is the Forge really about /indie/ support, or supporting those /already established/ on the scene?
Quote from: greyormIn fact, in thinking about it more, I guess it sometimes seems certain people seem to recieve more feedback on their designs than do others. Look at the games you mentioned: they're all from a central clique of designers. I doubt this is conscious, but I am noting it and it concerns me somewhat.
Quote from: Andy KitkowskiI must bring up the example ot the rpg-create group at yahoogroups (many of you have seen this group, if not joined it temporarily). It's not too heavy now, but when I found it, and joined, there were over a thousand poin....There are currently 300+ people on that group. I have never heard of any of them. None of them have apparently produced anything. I'd go as far as to say that if any of them have produced, say, anything more than a web update ("My D&D Homebrew Prestiege Classes") or uncut PDF... I'll eat my wife's homemade natto. If any of them have produced a published game that appeared on the shelf of even their local gaming store... Well, I'll eat my G***mn shoe.
QuoteIs that a viable prerequisite for posting in the design forum? A game complete enough to playtest does show a certain amount of investment on the designer's part. Should there be a seperate forum for other design queries not involving ready-to-playtest projects or does that defeat the purpose?
QuoteI realize that's a bit like screaming "Stop being so damn selfish and help ME!" and perhaps it even is, given that this is everyone's free time. On the other hand...well, community and purpose require some degree of personal sacrifice, right? Or it becomes instead a lot of people demanding that they be first priority, screw everyone else.
QuoteIt may be fine for you to turn out a work that is short, but it isn't for me. I want to produce quality and substance.
QuoteWhy should I come and bring more material here if I'm getting very few comments on them? Why should I repeatedly ask for help when I've been shown that with few exceptions (thanks to a those few btw) I've had little input. Should I post my entire game? I come with issue, I get a ffew suggestions, thats good, I don't produce enough discussion to merit coming back with furthur information.
QuoteI don't expect long threads every time, I do expect more than I've gotten. How much enthusiasm am I supposed to put behind a discussion here, when only a few here bother themselves?
Quote from: ValamirSidhain: your most recent post IMO has crossed the line into simply being petulant. This is just insulting. Did you really intend to equate length with quality and substance and short as being neither? In point of fact, when my next project is ready to be exposed to the Indie Design Forum I suspect it will clock in at over 100 pages. Universalis was over 40 in full size.
QuoteYou expect? Like you're owed something? How much enthusiasm are you supposed to put in? News for you my friend A HELL OF A LOT...that's how much. If you can't even convince a bunch of fellow game designers to be interested in your design...on a site where people are WANTING to discuss design, then you need to work on a better approach. I mean really, if you're not enthused and excited about your project how in heck are we supposed to be.
QuoteI hope you'll try posting again, Hearts and Souls had some cool ideas in it. But I'll be damned if I'm going to feel guilty because you didn't get as much response as you "expected"...especially given the minimal effort you put into it.
Quote from: Mark JohnsonWe have identified some possible problems. Have we identified any solutions? Some options...1) A critique forum where designers with complete PDFs or docs can say their manuscript is open for perusal. Each thread would offer participants to critique any aspect of the game or its presentation with the designer. Participants would know the designer was serious because they manage to get a workable game manuscript together and have it open to critique. It might also identify problems with the game that might get overlooked in Indie Game Design because in that forum response is dictated by the questions posted by the designer. This could weed out problems before the manuscipt is presented to playtesters and posted in actual play.2) A separate forum for Gauntlet style challenges: 24 Hour Game, Iron Game Chef, Create Yer Own Fantasy Heartbreaker, Chained In The Basement. There is clearly a great interest in this. After eight days, 24 Hour Game has not only cracked the top ten threads in terms of views, it has also spawned nine games, including several that are worthy of long term development. I would not count on this to simply to disappear. Challenge is seen as an essential part of developing one's craft. Game design is a craft.3) An idea clearing house... a place to put your trial balloons and get private responses. Since in the trial balloon stage all a designer is looking for is basically a "that's cool" or "that sucks" assessment; let them post an overview of the game or mechanic in a forum and allow no responses except via PM. It would be a way for people to determine the viabilty of the idea, locate fellow collaborators and find future play testers. The emphasis in this forum would be on building community, but in a way that would not distract from the mission of the Forge since response is private.These are just possibilities. There are many other solutions.(I crossposted with Ralph, since several of his comments were similar to mine, I think they bear at least a cursory examination).
Quote from: szilardI think the big problem with making these divisions is that it leaves out what I see as one of the prime purposes of the forum: allowing designers to ask about a specific game design issue in a game that they are in the process of writing. If you have a complete game, that's great. It might need some tweaking, editing, playtesting, or whatnot. What about all those people who are working toward having a complete game and have hit a snag? Isn't that one of the primary targets of this forum?If there is a change, I sincerely hope it doesn't leave these people out. There seems to be a distressing tendency in this thread to divide people who post in the game design forum into two types (1) "I have a complete (or practically so) game that I'm looking for some feedback on" and (2) "I have a neat idea. Whaddaya think?" - but that division would, I think, be missing a large and important chunk of the target population.