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275647 Posts in 27717 Topics by 4285 Members Latest Member: - Jason DAngelo Most online today: 84 - most online ever: 565 (October 17, 2020, 02:08:06 PM)
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Author Topic: Trollbabe Questions & Comments  (Read 13664 times)
Ron Edwards
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« Reply #15 on: May 01, 2003, 11:21:35 AM »

More confusion, eh?

"Doubly-injured" means "hit the injured box twice without healing." So far so good; I think everyone gets this.

Consequence in-game, to the trollbabe as a person - she's dealing with two wounds of some respective kinds.

Consequence in mechanics terms - the next Series she's involved in, she proceeds to the "incapacitated" box if she fails the first roll in that Series. She has one re-roll remaining, to see who gets to narrate her fate.

As far as "triply-injured" goes, that means that she would proceed directly to the final box on the Series page on a failed roll - again, immediately incapacitated, with Goal failed, and with no potential re-roll at all - the only choice remaining is whether the GM narrates her fate or the player decides to kill her.

Please note that in all cases, she would still have the chance to succeed at the Goal, if she did make that first roll.

Seems pretty clear to me ...

Best,
Ron
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jburneko
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« Reply #16 on: May 01, 2003, 11:42:02 AM »

Ron, I think we get that.  We're not confused on how one goes DOWN the ladder.  We're confused about how we comes back UP the ladder through healing.

Example:

Conflict 1: I fail the first roll I'm discommoded.  I fail the second roll and I'm injured.  I stop the series.

Conflict 2: I fail the first roll and I'm injured.  I stop the series.

Conflict 3: I fail the first roll and I'm incapacitated with the option to reroll for narration rights.

Then, I recover from bein incapacitated.  I presumably CAN'T make rolls while I'm incapacitated so I have to recover first.

What is the result of failing my FIRST roll of Conflict 4?

a) I'm "just" injured so it works like Conflict 2 above.

b) I recover in layers so I'm "doubly" injured and works like Conflict 3 above.

OR

c) This is how I get to the mysterious "triple" injury state and thus failure of the FIRST roll results in incapacitation with NO option to roll for narration rights.

Jesse
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Ron Edwards
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« Reply #17 on: May 01, 2003, 11:45:54 AM »

Ah - the answer is any and all of the above. It depends on the narration of fates and the nature of the individual wounds. You're right, that's the only way you'd end up being "triply injured."

That definitely sounds like something I'll have to spell out in the (hypothetical) book version. You guys caught me on that one; I didn't explain it well in the text.

Best,
Ron
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jburneko
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« Reply #18 on: May 01, 2003, 01:07:46 PM »

Okay, and just because Trollbabe is so explicit about who gets to say what when, who has final say over what condition the trollbabe is in after recovery from Incapacitation?  Is it the person who narrated the Trollbabe's exit from the scene in which she got Incapacitated? (Either Player or GM depending on roll outcomes) or Is it the person who explains the circumstances of her recovery in the following scene? (GM Always).

As kind of a side note I've noted a feature of your game designs.  They usually involve very concrete damage inflicting rules with sort of very vague (perhaps abstract is a better term) recovery rules.  Indeed, this seems to be a feature of many Narrativist facilitating designs.  Really concrete, in-the-moment, often (surprisingly) brutal damage infliction rules but sort of "whenever" recovery rules.  Why is that?

Perhaps that last question is worthy of its own topic.

Jesse
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rafial
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« Reply #19 on: May 01, 2003, 02:56:02 PM »

Now that the recovery questions are settling down, let me reintroduce an area that got passed over earlier in the thread, regarding Relations "going first", as described on page 31, lower left column.

1) If the trollbabe has a Relation "go first", rolls the die, and fails, and then terminates the series, what the outcome for the Relation.  According to the rules, the Trollbabe is not considered to have failed in any way.  By the rule of "one step worse" for the Relation, I would presume the Relation is discommoded.  Is this correct?

2) If a relation goes first in a situation in which the Trollbabe is not yet present, is it permitted to continue the series, without involving the Trollbabe?  That is, could the player check off a reroll item, roll again, and have the consequences fall solely upon the Relation?  (i.e. if the second roll fails, the Relation will be injured, and so on)
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Ron Edwards
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« Reply #20 on: May 02, 2003, 07:32:28 AM »

Hi there,

Jesse wrote,

Quote
who has final say over what condition the trollbabe is in after recovery from Incapacitation? Is it the person who narrated the Trollbabe's exit from the scene in which she got Incapacitated? (Either Player or GM depending on roll outcomes) or Is it the person who explains the circumstances of her recovery in the following scene? (GM Always).


It's both, like this. The narrator (GM or player) says a whole lot about how the trollbabe ends up, relative to that conflict and the failed Goal. Then the GM, in framing the next scene, also says a whole lot about her situation. So think of it as "first half, second half," with the answer to your question arising from the whole.

Bear in mind that the next scene might have been requested by the player anyway, even though the GM says, "Yeah," and starts it.

Also bear in mind that, in the rare case of a disagreement about how hurt she is, the buck has to stop somewhere, and since the GM frames the scene no matter who requested it, it has to stop with the GM. I have never encountered this problem yet.

Rafial wrote,

Quote
1) If the trollbabe has a Relation "go first", rolls the die, and fails, and then terminates the series, what the outcome for the Relation. According to the rules, the Trollbabe is not considered to have failed in any way. By the rule of "one step worse" for the Relation, I would presume the Relation is discommoded. Is this correct?


No. The standard result for the failed roll is "discommoded." The relationship-NPC is therefore "injured." That means that tossing a relationship-NPC into the "go first" presupposes willingness to see him or her injured on a failed roll.

Quote
2) If a relation goes first in a situation in which the Trollbabe is not yet present, is it permitted to continue the series, without involving the Trollbabe? That is, could the player check off a reroll item, roll again, and have the consequences fall solely upon the Relation? (i.e. if the second roll fails, the Relation will be injured, and so on)


No. The only way that the Series may continue is if the trollbabe somehow shows up for the re-rolls. That may or may not be possible depending on scene framing and/or previous narrations.

Best,
Ron
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jburneko
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« Reply #21 on: May 02, 2003, 08:37:59 AM »

Quote from: Ron Edwards
No. The standard result for the failed roll is "discommoded." The relationship-NPC is therefore "injured." That means that tossing a relationship-NPC into the "go first" presupposes willingness to see him or her injured on a failed roll.


Um, so does this mean that having an NPC go first mean that there are essencially TWO discommoded states in the Series?

Example:

NPC Goes First, Roll Fails -> Trollbabe is Discommoded, NPC is Injured

Trollbabe goes into action Roll Fails-> Trollbabe is ?STILL? Discommoded, NPC is still Injured (Injured again?)

Trollbabe's next roll fails -> Trollbabe is Injured, NPC is Incapacitated

Trollbabe's next roll fails -> Trollbabe is Incapacitaty, NPC is Dead

Trollbabe's next roll decides the fate of the narration.

Is this right?

Jesse

P.S. It occurs to me that Trollbabe is an incredibly brutal and violent game if everytime I send out an NPC on some little diplomatic mission they're risking life and limb.
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Ron Edwards
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« Reply #22 on: May 02, 2003, 08:41:28 AM »

Hi Jesse,

Nope, you're missing the advantage of having an NPC-relationship go first. That advantage is that the trollbabe can then "pick up" at the re-roll stage without being discommoded. The NPC is injured, but the trollbabe is fine. See?

The (possibly minor, possibly major) disadvantage for this (minor) advantage is the risk to the NPC.

And yes, relationship NPCs are at severe risk in Trollbabe if they are used for re-rolls. That is actually one of the major points of the game, and someday I'll tell you what essential variable about yourself you have just revealed by your perception/reaction to it.

Best,
Ron
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jburneko
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« Reply #23 on: May 02, 2003, 10:10:18 AM »

Quote from: Ron Edwards
And yes, relationship NPCs are at severe risk in Trollbabe if they are used for re-rolls. That is actually one of the major points of the game, and someday I'll tell you what essential variable about yourself you have just revealed by your perception/reaction to it.


Now, I'm worried.

But, um, that I think wraps up all my confusion and questions for now.  So, thanks for the clearifications.

Jesse
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Bob McNamee
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Posts: 685


« Reply #24 on: May 02, 2003, 12:49:54 PM »

Regarding the 'going first' and reroll...

We cheated a bit on this in our last session.
Clyde the Fire Monkey was flying Kincott the Herald (two of Yulari/Chris's Relationships) back to the Capital to warn of the army approaching...they dropped in on the zombie assassin that was entering the tower bedroom of the Heirs...

2 exchange mode
Fire Monkey 'goes first' attacking...Fails

[Here I bent the rules allowing him to use Kincott as a reroll since they were both present, but they would both be vulnerable to the same level of injury.]

Reroll successful, and a successful 2 exchange and zombie assassin is dropped over the balcony by flying monkey.

The intial Fail meant they both were Injured in the Conflict.

Bit of a bend, but it fit the circumstances.
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Bob McNamee
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