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275647 Posts in 27717 Topics by 4285 Members Latest Member: - Jason DAngelo Most online today: 83 - most online ever: 565 (October 17, 2020, 02:08:06 PM)
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Author Topic: Name That Demon- building difficult demons  (Read 22142 times)
Ron Edwards
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« Reply #30 on: May 08, 2003, 12:54:15 PM »

Hi Zamiel,

What a wonderful example of answering your own question! Your third option is correct.

Best,
Ron
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Zamiel
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« Reply #31 on: May 08, 2003, 01:08:21 PM »

Quote from: Ron Edwards
What a wonderful example of answering your own question! Your third option is correct.

There are times that being able to envision too many options is a hinderance, Ron.  :)

That said, this implies that an Inconspicuous can take a Cloak to remain invisible (somewhat) while acting, which isn't necessarily a bad thing.Rather nice for modelling those poltergeists ... its just a Demon grabbing things and waving them around without being seen.
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Capes: This Present Darkness, Dragonstaff
Ron Edwards
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« Reply #32 on: May 09, 2003, 06:03:53 AM »

H'm,

I consider all Cloaks, of any kind, to be dropped when the demon takes "obvious" action.

The poltergeist activity example, in my mind, is itself a dropped Cloak, as the presence of the demon as an "ack! something's here!" entity is being made apparent.

Best,
Ron
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Mike Holmes
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« Reply #33 on: May 09, 2003, 07:30:00 AM »

Hmmm. So to be clear, the mechanical effect is that you can target a "decloaked" demon, even if the "special effect"* is that he remains invisible at all times? The cause of "decloaking" in this case being that things moving?

*For those unaware, this is a Hero System term meaning "what the power looks like".

Mike
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Ron Edwards
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« Reply #34 on: May 09, 2003, 07:42:57 AM »

Hi Mike,

Yep. That's why (which I'm sure a fellow Hero System veteran understands) the concept that "but I'm invisible so you can't attack me" is meaningless in a game of this sort.

Best,
Ron
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Mike Holmes
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« Reply #35 on: May 09, 2003, 08:48:56 AM »

Gotta keep this rolling.

I want a demon that can make me a rock star. Not just make me capable of being a rock star (Cover), but actually make me be a rock star with all the attendant glory. Doesn't have to be instant, but it does have to be, "overnight", if you catch my drift.

Mike
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Fabrice G.
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« Reply #36 on: May 09, 2003, 09:09:38 AM »

Quote from: Mike Holmes
Not just make me capable of being a rock star (Cover), but actually make me be a rock star with all the attendant glory.


Hi Mike,

I maybe going the easier route, so...

If I read the Cover's definition right, it's not only about skills and potential. It encompasses the contacts, the style of life and the glory too. So, IMO, with Cover : Rockstar at 7-8 dice, you ARE a rockstar, and not only potentially one. That of course does not explain HOW you're becoming a rockstar in-game, that's the "special effect" that need to be dealt with by the group.

Then again, I may be lazzy and going the easy way out.

Fabrice.
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jburneko
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« Reply #37 on: May 09, 2003, 09:19:46 AM »

Curse me and my litteral reading of the rules: "Cover.  The user is proficient at an yskills associated with a given profession or social status, using dice qual to the demon's Power."

So, no, fame and glory don't come with Cover, although the skills to HANDLE fame and glory do.

It seems to me that this is another use of Psychic Forces to slap on penalties to an audience, record produces, whatever to make them easilly swayed.  Add in Travel and Transport to move people around so that everyone is in just the right place at just the right time.

Jesse
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Fabrice G.
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« Reply #38 on: May 09, 2003, 09:34:32 AM »

Okay Jesse,

then I curse you and your litteral reading...  ;)

I was going by the definition given for the Cover attribute:

"The character should own and have acces to anything reasonable that people who make their living doing whatever his or her Cover his.
Cover is an extremely inclusive term. It is used for all nuances of a given background, lifestyle, or profession, including any physical, social, or intellectual elements." (p.31)

My mistake was that I thought that the cover ability gave the appropriate Cover (attribute) to the character... my bad.

Fabrice.
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Ron Edwards
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« Reply #39 on: May 09, 2003, 10:34:09 AM »

My money's with Fabrice, based on exactly the text he quoted.

However, all that says for Mike's demon concept is the minimum ability for the demon. What other abilities could be involved? Jesse's suggestions work fine - essentially a re-tread of my "easy life" demon, slanted toward making the perfect entrance and so on - but what else might?

Oh, that brings up one more thing - everyone understands that Boost Cover is absurd, right? It weakens the demon and only lasts for an action or two. Far better to take the Cover ability and have it confer to the sorcerer, which is not so limited.

Best,
Ron
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jburneko
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« Reply #40 on: May 09, 2003, 10:42:04 AM »

Quote from: Ron Edwards
My money's with Fabrice, based on exactly the text he quoted.


Huh, my reading was that was how the Cover Score and the Cover Ability differed.  If my Cover Score is Rockstar, then yeah, fame, glory the works.  If, however, my Cover Score is Bookstore Clerk and I summon a Demon to "make me a rockstar" then via the Cover Ability I gain the TALENT for being a rockstar but then I must put that talent to use to actually GET the fame and glory, perhaps aided by other demonic abilities.

I suppose either reading works.

Jesse
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jburneko
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« Reply #41 on: May 09, 2003, 11:29:23 AM »

I've got a new demon.  Have you ever seen the one act play Sure Thing by David Ives?  It's usually perfromed as part of a collection of one acts called All In The Timing.

There are only two characters in the play a man and a woman who have a chance meeting in a cafe.  It's clear that the guy is interested in the woman and he's trying to get her interested in him.  Everytime the conversation goes wrong a bell rings and the scene starts over at the last point just before the mistake was made.

Here's the key: It goes both ways.  Sometimes, the guy just makes a mistake and the coversation rewinds.  But sometimes the woman simply gives an answer he doesn't like, the bell goes off, he asks the same question and she gives a different answer, the bell keeps going off until either he says the right thing or she gives the answer he's looking for:

Examples:

Guy looking for the right answer:

Woman: "What's your politics?"

Guy: "Straight down the ticket republican."

Ding!

Guy: "Straight down the ticket democrat."

Ding!

Guy: "I'm an independent."

Ding!

Guy: "Actually, I try to stay out of politics."

The Woman Altering Her Reactions:

Guy: "Are you seeing anyone?"

Woman: "Yes, and there he is now!"

Ding!

Woman: "Yes, and there she is now!"

Ding!

Woman: "No, actually I'm not."

I want a demon that can do this for me.

Jesse
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Rod Anderson
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« Reply #42 on: May 09, 2003, 11:53:05 AM »

Jesse,

Cover: Suave Guy, with the special effect that you're actually fucking up, and then going back and starting over? I mean, assuming that the Demon's only function is to help its master get play.


Rod
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jburneko
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« Reply #43 on: May 09, 2003, 12:14:34 PM »

Rod,

Interesting idea but I was really focusing on the ability to rewrite small parts of reality.  I don't think of this demon granting the ability to, say, go back in time to yesterday but rather to alter facts that revealed, in a given scene.

Consider this scene.

Sorcerer: "Ah, Mrs Robinson, how is your husband."

Woman: "Ah, last week, he got a promotion."

Ding!

Woman: "Oh, I'm affraid he passed away last week."

But as soon as the Sorcerer let's the fact stand the demon can't alter it.  Hell, what the fact gets changed to may be random or determined by the demon so the Sorcerer has to kind of decide to let this fact stand NOW, or let it pass and hope he gets something better.

That limitation is probably just that, a limitation, and doesn't need to be represented by the ability itself.

Jesse
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Rod Anderson
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« Reply #44 on: May 09, 2003, 01:08:36 PM »

"Small parts of reality" according to whom, Jesse? Not the guy who, instead of getting a promotion, dropped dead!

My call, according to your stipulations, is that  the Demon has Travel: Slightly Different Recent Past, along with Transport.


Rod
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