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275647 Posts in 27717 Topics by 4285 Members Latest Member: - Jason DAngelo Most online today: 84 - most online ever: 565 (October 17, 2020, 02:08:06 PM)
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Author Topic: Sex and Sorcery -- This Book Rocks!  (Read 16009 times)
Ron Edwards
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« Reply #15 on: June 13, 2003, 10:52:38 AM »

Hi Chris,

I credit two things for teaching us all how to deal with this stuff openly in play. Sorcerer brought me there back during early playtesting, but it opens up too much, in a way - I had to back off and gain the social and creative skills during play (this! from a classic Master GM Illusionist from the 80s!) before I could use them in Sorcerer.

The first is Hero Wars and the mythology of Glorantha. See the threads Premise in Hero Wars? and Goddess of Rape?

The second is Violence Future. See the threads Violence Future: disgusting! And only myself to blame, Real-life partners, in-game depravity, Drawing the line, drawing the veil, and More depravity and Violence Future.

Without them, no Azk'Arn game could have been possible. Without Azk'Arn, no Sex & Sorcery. That's why I decided to order my limited-edition copy of HeroQuest with the Thed rune on the cover.

Best,
Ron

P.S. Honorable mention also go to Orkworld, kill puppies for satan, and Le Mon Mouri.
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Bankuei
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« Reply #16 on: June 13, 2003, 11:04:47 AM »

Hi Ron,

I definitely recognized the influence of all those previous threads while I was reading my copy.  At the time I had went through those threads, much of the issues and ideas were somewhat hazy for me, such as the difference between the veil and the line, but as I was reading Sex and Sorcery, I found all those concepts had congealed and sprouted into something for a better understanding this time around.

For me, personally, what had been my experiences with the "can of worms" concepts was bringing in issues such as social and racial justice, religion, culture, and class issues.  The non-gamers who I brought into the hobby took onto these concepts and made for some great thematic play(In Feng Shui, no less!), while the traditional gamers who I had met and usually drifted away from, at some point, were absolutely terrified of the issues.

Chris
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Jake Norwood
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« Reply #17 on: June 16, 2003, 09:25:55 AM »

Okay, so this thread is probably dead, but I finished Sex & Sorcery last night, so here's my answers to "the questions."

Quote
1. Did the Paragon story work, in terms of making the game material clear and/or interesting? Is anyone interested in playing a game using that setting?


Yes. It was well written, and unlike the game fiction you hate, and a beginning, middle, and end. On the other hand the climax was confusing in exactly the same way that Sorcerer in-game climaxes have often been confusing. I'm not sure what that says, though.

Quote
2. What about Azk'Arn? Does it sound fun? I'd really, really like to have some artists work on an Azk'Arn gallery for the website, and especially, if anyone wants to do a map, I'd be very grateful.


Very "Heavy Metal." I think it sounds fun, but I also think that it was a little too far from most of our Sorcerer play experiences to be the best example of play; while trying to grok the setting I found myself overlooking the points that you were trying to make. Art for it would be great.

Quote
3. Do those dice diagrams in Ch. 6 make sense, or (as I suspect) am I going to have to re-phrase my explanations here in this forum?


I think so. One of the things that I love about you, Ron, is how deeply you think about all this stuff. You're our Einstein.

Quote
4. How about the testimonials? What point did they make or reinforce, to you? Were they thought-provoking in any way?


They confirmed to me how dysfunctional our hobby is. Every gamer of a few years has stories like these. We're a jacked up bunch. I also found that they kept my mind on the topic--sex/gener relations--even when the I lost that feel elsewhere.

The book also prompted me to go back and re-read the other three books. Thanks...

Jake
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"Civilized men are more discourteous than savages because they know they can be impolite without having their skulls split, as a general thing." -R.E. Howard The Tower of the Elephant
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Ron Edwards
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« Reply #18 on: June 18, 2003, 03:23:48 PM »

Hi there,

Jake wrote,

Quote
They confirmed to me how dysfunctional our hobby is. Every gamer of a few years has stories like these. We're a jacked up bunch.


I agree in full. I still think the Social Context thread, from the Infamous Five, contains one of the strongest points I've ever presented, far more important than the GNS stuff. I'd very much like to see people model functional, fun play contexts in actual play, and to call attention to specific things they've done, or cracked down on, that are treated in exactly the wrong ways in most groups.

Jake, I'm very interested in what you think of your re-reading of The Sorcerer's Soul.

Best,
Ron
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Jake Norwood
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« Reply #19 on: June 18, 2003, 03:44:35 PM »

Quote
Jake, I'm very interested in what you think of your re-reading of The Sorcerer's Soul.


Yeah, me too.

Jake
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"Civilized men are more discourteous than savages because they know they can be impolite without having their skulls split, as a general thing." -R.E. Howard The Tower of the Elephant
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Lxndr
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« Reply #20 on: June 18, 2003, 04:33:43 PM »

Were the books meant to be read in any particular order?  I've read Sex, but I don't even have my hands on Soul or Sword yet...
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Alexander Cherry, Twisted Confessions Game Design
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Ron Edwards
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« Reply #21 on: June 18, 2003, 04:36:31 PM »

Hi Alexander,

Sex & Sorcery presupposes familiarity with all three previous books, but I think a lot of it stands alone as well. I think reading Sorcerer & Sword should precede reading The Sorcerer's Soul, because the relationship-map stuff makes the most sense (and avoids certain mis-readings) if you have a good grasp of what's meant by a Sorcerer bang - which gets its strongest treatment in Sorcerer & Sword.

In other words, "in order" is recommended although not required by any means.

Best,
Ron
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Jake Norwood
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« Reply #22 on: June 18, 2003, 06:28:18 PM »

Actually, Sex & Sorcery makes frequent reference to Sorcery and Sword, so I'd read them "in order."

Jake
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Andy Kitkowski
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« Reply #23 on: June 20, 2003, 01:41:39 PM »

Hey all- quick question:

I'm trying to get my LGS to get it in. They have Sorcerer and Sword, so I don't know what their problem is, but the owner says he talked to his folks at Alliance and Centurion but they haven't seen it yet (he has it on preorder with them though).

Anyone have any ideas of how I can help him get a copy for me? I'm wondering if there's another distributor, or someone in the know that he can talk to, or something...

Anyone else having a problem picking it up?

I mean, I guess if I wait for a while it'll eventually come in, but I'm a nonrepentent "Must Have Now" kind of guy when it comes to games...

-Andy
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Ron Edwards
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« Reply #24 on: June 23, 2003, 05:27:52 AM »

Hi Andy,

Tundra, Tundra, Tundra.

More specifically, tell your retailer that he can order directly from Tundra Sales Organization - use the magic words, "50% discount."

Best,
Ron
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