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Author Topic: new fora?  (Read 4054 times)
contracycle
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Posts: 2807


« on: July 28, 2003, 11:41:46 PM »

So we are getting a lot of raw game idea's pitched lately.  No problem with that, its just difficult to fiugure out where they go.  In RPG theory, as in please analyse my idea, or actual play, as in this is what I am trying to really build?

I don't think the forge has a suitable plave for these, becuase these picthes were not part of its conceived function.  But I therefore propose that a forum be created for people to discuss raw game ideas before they go to developement.  I know this sort of thing generates much more heat than light as a rule, but equally, its good to get reinfcorcement to the effect that your initial concept doesn't suck.

Alternatively, anbd perhaps more radically, how about creating a set of fora broken down by the components of RPG - setting, situation, colour, character and whatnot, in the hopes that discussion will distribute among them appropriately.
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iago
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« Reply #1 on: July 29, 2003, 06:51:24 AM »

Quote from: contracycle
So we are getting a lot of raw game idea's pitched lately.  No problem with that, its just difficult to fiugure out where they go.  In RPG theory, as in please analyse my idea, or actual play, as in this is what I am trying to really build?


This sounds pretty unambiguously like a description of a Indie Game Design forum topic ... I don't see where it misses that mark.
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Mike Holmes
Acts of Evil Playtesters
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« Reply #2 on: July 29, 2003, 07:57:21 AM »

The problem, Fred, is that some of the ideas are so raw as to violate the Indie Design forum's principle about only posting regarding games in design. That is, posts like "What do you think of X idea?" are not good form. I think that Gareth is looking for a place for those to go. Do I have that about right?

Mike
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contracycle
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Posts: 2807


« Reply #3 on: July 29, 2003, 09:28:13 AM »

Yes, pretty much.  I mean a big percentage are intended homebrews, or requests for affirmation that X idea is cool.  Thats good stuff and I don't want to stop it, but its taking bandwidth from discussion of actually existing Indie RPGs and what can be learned from them or discussion of the serious attempts to genuinely finish a work.  I'd rather we could separate out the stuff that is Ideas from the stuff that is Products )actual or potential).
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greyorm
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« Reply #4 on: July 29, 2003, 09:30:38 AM »

We had this very same disucussion a few months ago; it can be found here.
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Rev. Ravenscrye Grey Daegmorgan
Wild Hunt Studio
Mark Johnson
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« Reply #5 on: July 29, 2003, 04:01:48 PM »

Quote from: contracycle
I don't think the forge has a suitable plave for these, becuase these picthes were not part of its conceived function.  But I therefore propose that a forum be created for people to discuss raw game ideas before they go to developement.  I know this sort of thing generates much more heat than light as a rule, but equally, its good to get reinfcorcement to the effect that your initial concept doesn't suck.


I proposed something similar several months ago.  The problem is, essentially, that these raw pitches are antithetical to the purpose of the Forge.  If you need to be told that your "concept doesn't suck", you probably don't have the passion or discipline to complete a project.  Similarly, why should established game designers be interested in helping people who will ultimately flake out and not ever produce anything.  The Indie Game Design forum in particular is about producing games, not producing ideas for games.  

Ultimately, how difficult is it to produce a trial version of your product?  The 24 Hour Games proved to my satisfaction that a core idea can be developed sufficiently without making it a total lifetime investment.  At that point post it and get feedback on Indie Game Design and in Actual Play.   If the game is worth developing further, you can.  If it "sucks," at least you have gotten an actual game under your belt and can take the experience on to new projects.
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Jeffrey Miller
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« Reply #6 on: July 29, 2003, 06:57:37 PM »

Quote from: Mark Johnson
Ultimately, how difficult is it to produce a trial version of your product?  The 24 Hour Games proved to my satisfaction that a core idea can be developed sufficiently without making it a total lifetime investment.  At that point post it and get feedback on Indie Game Design and in Actual Play.   If the game is worth developing further, you can.  If it "sucks," at least you have gotten an actual game under your belt and can take the experience on to new projects.


This is a little off-thread, but I just wanted to chime in to support a good chunk of what Mark is saying above.  Take an hour or two, write down your idea, and chew it over for a couple days.  Write a small story about a scene you imagine happening in your game idea, and see if it still sounds as cool.  Write out some rough mechanics and see if they fit your idea.

Above all - do.  Put pen to paper or fingers to keys and get your idea out.  Don't sit and wait for it to be "perfect"; its a myth that anyone ever creates something with a lot of thought, process, pain, and effort.  Don't worry about hitting every note right the first time, just get something built so you can step back and say "damn, that doesn't work, but this bit over here is pretty cool.."  Don't be afraid of failure, and here at the Forge, you don't need to fear ridicule.

Go..

Do..

-jeffrey-
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contracycle
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Posts: 2807


« Reply #7 on: July 29, 2003, 11:36:34 PM »

Yes, I agree that we've had this discussion before, and I agree that it isn't that hard to get a working prototype for demo purposes.

That is why I am making a particular suggestion that we make a forum called "pitch it to me" or similar for raw ideas to be thrashed out.  I don't want to just outright ban work that does not reach a certain level.
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Jason Lee
Member

Posts: 729


« Reply #8 on: July 30, 2003, 12:47:21 PM »

What I thought was important about your original post was that the 'here's my pitch' ideas are removing focus from the design and theory fora; dividing the resources (thinking people) in those fora, and hence making the fora less useful.  I seriously doubt you can prevent the pitch topics, as, well...they happen.  Creating a new forum to handle the traffic would be adjusting to the change in climate, as opposed to fighting an impossible battle.

However, creating a forum specifically for something officially outside the Forge goals will only increase traffic in that area; dividing discussion participant time even further, and hence reducing the amount of product/theory/play focused dialog.

I suppose that's just part of what's being weighed here by the men who have to make (and live) with the decision.  Would changing the division of resources problem we currently experience to a different division of resources problem better serve or further hinder the Forge's goals?

You may notice this is a wishy-washy no-vote one way or the other post...which I suppose is just fine, 'cause it ain't a democracy, right? ;)
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- Cruciel
iago
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« Reply #9 on: July 30, 2003, 01:31:12 PM »

One of my concerns about not creating new fora in response to this trend is that of dilution.  There's nothing stopping anyone going off and creating a forum to do exactly that which, effectively, has no home or is, at least, frowned upon here, somewhere else -- and that would be even more of a "split focus" issue than having new fora, I would think.  

If a home is created for such things on the forge, you're at least keeping the stuff centralized.  Every forge has its scrap metal, after all.
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