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Author Topic: which one to choose: the red or the white die?  (Read 2735 times)
chade0
Member

Posts: 46


« on: September 26, 2003, 11:20:09 PM »

Hello all.

I bought TROS some days ago and I'd like to hear some good tactics in choosing whether to throw a red or a white die in the beginning of a fight.

When is it wise to choose to attack and when to defend?



P.S. This is a great game!
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MonkeyWrench
Member

Posts: 160


« Reply #1 on: September 26, 2003, 11:43:24 PM »

I usually stress to my players that it is best to throw white because you don't always know the strength of your opponent. If you are worried that if you throw white you will never be able to attack then you can either put up a strong defense and hope to gain initiative or fully evade and throw red next time.

Heres an example.....
A few sessions ago my players found themselves in steamy jungles hunting down a group of Sslassk (from OBAM). As they were setting up camp at night they were ambushed. One of my players always throws red, not matter what, and will always lead in with a double strike (twin short swords). He had mowed through two opponents without taking a single scratch and got cocky on the third. He threw red I threw red and while he killed the snake man he also ended up loosing his family jewels and breaking his hip.

However in my group we only use the initiative dice about 20% of the time. The rest of the time we use our descriptions of what we're doing to dictate whether we attack or defend.
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-Jim
Ashren Va'Hale
Member

Posts: 427


« Reply #2 on: September 26, 2003, 11:44:03 PM »

I would need specific details on the situation before saying - for example, against multiple opponents, ALWAYS attack, maybe do a terrain roll to whittle down the odds but defending will just get you killed since the multiple attackers will eventually whittle down your CP and gut you. Dead men don't fight back.

other than that it depends on what weapons you have, if your dtn sucks butt defending is worthless. why throw white with your war flail or maul? thats just asking to smacked around like a sissy girl.

Also, if you are fast, like a reflex of 8, and you have a low ATN, then red die is almost always a good thing, even if the other shmuck throws red, you will most likely win the contest of reflex. But if you have a low reflex or a high ATN but nice armor or dtn, then white is the choice for you.

The devil is in the details though.
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Philosophy: Take whatever is not nailed down, for the rest, well thats what movement is for!
Jaeger
Member

Posts: 73


« Reply #3 on: September 27, 2003, 09:07:12 PM »

As much as I hate to admit it I'm pretty much in total agreement with Ashren's post... the best defense is a good offense.

 But like he said, the devil's in the details...  in certain situation a red die is just a bad thing.

  ... always a double strike with two short swords? That's just asking to get whacked. (and I'm not talking about going red or the double strike, but two short swords!? When you use an inferior weapon expect inferior results.)
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I care not.
Ashren Va'Hale
Member

Posts: 427


« Reply #4 on: September 28, 2003, 01:13:50 AM »

heres where a red die is dumb as hell. In a campaign I ran last summer my  gaming group decided that going red against a breed of hef they never saw before would be fun. well, they were using a pole axe, feel free to check the ATN, its higher than 5, the atn for a good ole unarmed strike in my campaign (a hef attack with its claws) so the PC should have realized that his  ATN would make a contest of reflexes not so fun. But, to prove the dumbness of his decision lets add the fact that the wolf hef has a reflex of nine. pc has a reflex of 6. Guess who won that contest. So the PC tries to buy initiative... activation cost equal to the opponents perception- kiss eleven dice good bye.  so that failed too and the PC gets smacked around like a little girl. What should he have done? Thrown white and waited for help from the other PC's  to finish the thing off. This PC learned a tough lesson that night. Think before you drop that die, he was one of my smarter players but he failed to consider what he was up against just that once and it cost him badly. measure all known or inferred factors before acting rashly, buy time with the white die if you must.
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Philosophy: Take whatever is not nailed down, for the rest, well thats what movement is for!
Salamander
Member

Posts: 450


« Reply #5 on: September 28, 2003, 06:53:58 AM »

Quote from: Ashren Va'Hale
heres where a red die is dumb as hell. In a campaign I ran last summer my  gaming group decided that going red against a breed of hef they never saw before would be fun. well, they were using a pole axe, feel free to check the ATN, its higher than 5, the atn for a good ole unarmed strike in my campaign (a hef attack with its claws) so the PC should have realized that his  ATN would make a contest of reflexes not so fun. But, to prove the dumbness of his decision lets add the fact that the wolf hef has a reflex of nine. pc has a reflex of 6. Guess who won that contest. So the PC tries to buy initiative... activation cost equal to the opponents perception- kiss eleven dice good bye.  so that failed too and the PC gets smacked around like a little girl. What should he have done? Thrown white and waited for help from the other PC's  to finish the thing off. This PC learned a tough lesson that night. Think before you drop that die, he was one of my smarter players but he failed to consider what he was up against just that once and it cost him badly. measure all known or inferred factors before acting rashly, buy time with the white die if you must.


I bet that player got on the learning curve pretty quick...

When fighting a Hef, be sure of one thing... Get the drop on him! If you have a few guys with missile weapons, get them to open up first, soften him up, chew up some of his CP. Otherways... better put a whole mountain of dice into a counter and hope you can steal the hef's successes... otherwise the learning curve turns down on the graph and heads straight to -6y...
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"Don't fight your opponent's sword, fight your opponent. For as you fight my sword, I shall fight you. My sword shall be nicked, your body shall be peirced through and I shall have a new sword".
Ron Edwards
Global Moderator
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Posts: 16490


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« Reply #6 on: September 28, 2003, 07:49:30 AM »

Hello,

Newcomers to TROS often miss a crucial concept about the red/white die rules.

That concept is: most combat situations do not require this mechanic at all. If a guy charges at you, he's already using the red die. Same goes for the player who says, "I'm attacking! I'm killin' the bastard!" If the NPC is described as standing casually, confidently, with his sword-tip tracing lazy circles in the air, he's already using the white die.

The vast majority of role-playing combats begin with such announcements and such descriptions. In all of these cases, do not "throw" the red/white dice. Just go with what you already know and are already doing.

Save the red/white die throws for those situations in which both combatants are uncertain about what the other guy is about to do. Playing in this fashion annulls 99% of the beginner's uncertainty about what the red/white die "means."

Best,
Ron
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Draigh
Member

Posts: 151


« Reply #7 on: September 28, 2003, 11:55:14 AM »

I think the most important thing to remember in TRoS combat is to be dedicated to whatever you're doing.  You can't pussyfoot around and expect to survive.  If you're planning on attacking, drop a red die and smack the hell out of your opponent.  If you have any doubts, drop white and out defend him.  

No matter what you choose to do, do it with conviction.
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Drink to the dead all you, still alive.
We shall join them, in good time.
If you go crossing that silvery brook it's best to leap before you look.
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