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275647 Posts in 27717 Topics by 4285 Members Latest Member: - Jason DAngelo Most online today: 68 - most online ever: 565 (October 17, 2020, 02:08:06 PM)
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Author Topic: What is a HeroQuest?  (Read 4577 times)
Gordon C. Landis
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« on: October 31, 2003, 03:49:39 PM »

Quote from: Valamir
Quote
To veer over to the Illiad example. Greek heroquesters might look for ways to resolve the rift between Achillies and Agammemnon -- but if they suddenly turned it around and decided that fighting over the ownership of another human being was the real problem...that'd be a huge eye-opener for the heroes in general and the societies they represented.


You know, that's one of the clearest visions of what a HeroQuest is I've seen.  Perhaps it was putting it in terms of a myth that is as well known to me as many of these Gloranthan ones are to some of you, but for the first time I have an idea on what a HeroQuest might really look like.


This reminded me of something I've been meaning to post for a while . . .

Whalerider (http://www.whaleriderthemovie.com/) was for me a perfect encapsulation of what the "rewritting the rules for a community" aspect of heroquesting is all about.  And plenty of mythic resonance, too.  I hold it out as an excellent resource.  Any others?

Gordon
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simondale
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« Reply #1 on: October 31, 2003, 05:47:40 PM »

Quote from: Gordon C. Landis

I hold it out as an excellent resource.  Any others?
Gordon


Rashomon (1950), the film by Akira Kurosawa.

The story is: A rogue and a husband get into a fight. The husband is killed and the wife and the rogue have sex. A fourth participant is a passerby.

The film shows four different intepretations of the story, one version from each participant,  with each telling emphasising different details. It's the passerby who is the key.

In a Gloranthan context; most versions of the myth will only feature the three main participants. It's the fourth participant (and their cult) who holds the 'truth' of it all and provides the biggest crack for different things to seep into the myth.

Actually any 'story three ways' film or TV show would make a good example.

I'll stop there before it whirlpools into over-analysed nonsense

Cheers,
Simon
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Mac Logo
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« Reply #2 on: October 31, 2003, 10:39:11 PM »

Is this limited to films?
Well, looks at DVD collection and sees some obvious ones where there is community transformation (positive and negative) from a hero's actions. Tries to ignore the ones based soley on individual transformation.

Amongst the Kurosawa there's "Seven Samurai" where the farmers "quest" for warriors to rid their community of bandits - I'm sure we all know the film (or The Magnificent Seven).

"Yojimbo" - more Kurosawa. A ronin wanders into a town oppressed by two bands of gangsters and proceeds to destroy them. It's the template for Leone's "Fistful of Dollars". What happens when Arkat wanders into town...

"The Shawshank Redemption". Andy Dufresne certainly transforms that community.

"Rollerball". The original one, not the remake (no one should suffer the remake). Jonathon's refusal to bow out gracefully, but to accept his being the centre of a Cult of Personality in defiance of the structure of his society is a fine example of heroic rebellion against an imperious state. A film about violence, not a violent film.

Lest we get too serious.
"Indiana Jones and The Temple of Doom". To summarise :) A small village, terrorised by an evil cult, begs Siva to send a hero. Hero arrives with his small hero band, from the sky! Hero challenges evil cult, frees the slaves (woops, back over to that thread), kills cult leader and the village's holy rock is rescued, bringing fertility back to the fields and strength back to the people.
Includes a Dungeon Crawl with Evil Cultists for us old-fashioned types.

Graeme
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Mac Logo
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« Reply #3 on: November 01, 2003, 03:44:37 AM »

Cripes, I forgot one.

Terry Gilliam's The Adventures of Baron Munchausen. The narrative structure of the film is a trip through the mythic realms where time is not quite linear or relevant. Gods and heroes all over the place, death as an abstract and as an physical presence. It only makes sense as a heroquest - Sally's quest to save the city.

Graeme
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Spooky Fanboy
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« Reply #4 on: November 01, 2003, 07:34:18 AM »

Here's my question, since I don't have the game: Could someone Heroquest to become a god, or at least a figure of legend?
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« Reply #5 on: November 01, 2003, 10:50:05 AM »

Quote from: Spooky Fanboy
Here's my question, since I don't have the game: Could someone Heroquest to become a god, or at least a figure of legend?

The short answer is Yes!. The longer answer is Yes, but.... It would probably take quite a lot of heroquests, "normal" adventures, political manouvering and the mythological equivalent of hacking - experimental heroquesting. The Gods of the Lunar Empire are mortals who worked their way up.

Player characters are assumed in HeroQuest to have at least the potential to be figures of legend. That is the nature of the player character in the game.

Hope this answers your question.

Graeme
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simon_hibbs
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« Reply #6 on: November 02, 2003, 05:33:40 AM »

Quote from: Mac Logo
Amongst the Kurosawa there's "Seven Samurai" where the farmers "quest" for warriors to rid their community of bandits - I'm sure we all know the film (or The Magnificent Seven).


I don't think it's the farmers that are questing, their community isn't realy transformed and they don't realy learn anything from the conflict. If anyone's on a heroquest it's the young man (sounds of rummaging in DVD box for name) Katsushiro who wants to become a samurai. He's the only one who realy learns anything from the experience, and it's that being a Samurai is just as empty and pointless an existence as being a peasant.

Quote
"Yojimbo" - more Kurosawa. A ronin wanders into a town oppressed by two bands of gangsters and proceeds to destroy them. It's the template for Leone's "Fistful of Dollars". What happens when Arkat wanders into town...


Arkat was defined by his conflict with his nemesis Gbaji, while the Man With No Name (and Yojimbo) are aimless wanderers, avatars of humakt perhaps who bring death to those who's time it is to die. The real story is the peasant girl, given by her lover to one of the bandits to repay a gambling debt. I forget the details of this part in Yojimbo but the sub-plot (actualy I'd say the main plot) is well managed in FFoD and Last Man Standing. Perhaps it's the story of a humakti who has lost his way on a trail of blod and violence (re?)discovering what it is about life that's worth fighting for.

Quote
"The Shawshank Redemption". Andy Dufresne certainly transforms that community.

"Rollerball". The original one, not the remake (no one should suffer the remake). Jonathon's refusal to bow out gracefully, but to accept his being the centre of a Cult of Personality in defiance of the structure of his society is a fine example of heroic rebellion against an imperious state. A film about violence, not a violent film.


Yep, both excelent examples. Gladiator fits this mould well too, and even fits into our Slavery discussion - bonus!

Simon Hibbs
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Simon Hibbs
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