Forum changes: Editing of posts has been turned off until further notice.
Started by Matt Snyder, February 06, 2004, 03:44:17 PM
Quote from: Matt SnyderThe reason I'm doing this is to focus on the premise. With these "regressed" Muses, players must focus on confronting their built-in conflicts. But, the key is how they resolve those Muses, and what this says about them. Will they play by the rules of the universe? Or, will they craft their own realities to resolve the Muses? (Simply stated, will they use supernatural means to solve their problems, or won't they?)Thoughts?
Quote from: Valamir1) It seems to me that in order to focus on that premise it must be required that for a muse to be valid it must be equally "solvable" by natural means or supernatural means, as it is the players choice in this regard that important. Is this an accurate statement, and if so, how do you envision enforcing it?
QuoteWhat actually changes about the character or what the character is able to do or how the universe reacts to the character when one is chosen over the other?
QuoteHopefully, that answers the question you posed, Ralph!
QuoteWhen a player uses his character's Muse, he checks off whether it was done using Arete or Hubris.
QuoteThen, when the Muse is actually resolved, the player earns the Muse's rating (or some other value) in Trump points.Depending on whether the player used his character's Muse more often under Arete or more often under Hubris, the player earns one of two kinds of Trump. If he used Arete more often, he earns Valor. If he used Hubris more often, he earns Pride. These let you do the following:
Quote* You can spend a point of Valor or Pride in a conflict phase to declare the suit you're using as Trump.
Quote* You can spend Valor to improve attributes permanently (and without a lock!).* You can spend Pride to acquire Talismans.
Quote(Note, I may interchange these abilities, so that both Valor and Pride can do both things here.)
Quote* You must have Trump points to challenge a world's Primarch. If you do so using Arete and Valor, you are championing the Primarch. Defeat his/her challenge, and you gain immortality (perhaps just on that world). If you do so using Hubris and Pride, you are trying to assume Primacy of the world for yourself. If you win, the world becomes your Talisman. You are not required to challenge Primarchs in the game; it is an option.
QuoteSo, in summary, making "the choice" in regards to Muses results in increased effectiveness as it applies to that type of choice. If you side with Arete, your "natural" effectiveness increases in some way. But, if you sided more so with Hubris, your "supernatural" effectiveness is improved.
QuoteEither way, the choice addresses the premise, and it says something about how your character chooses to live in the world.
QuoteHow does choosing Arete tie to "wanting to live in a world created by others"?
QuoteHow does choosing Hubris tie to "wanting to live in the world created by you"?
QuoteBut this is right back to the part I'm not getting. I've gone through alot of effort to focus on Arete...I've got Valor out the wazoo. You've gone through alot of effort to focus on Hubris. Man, you're the most prideful guy ever.But in the end...they do the exact same thing.Ralph "I spend a point of Valor to declare Trump"Matt "I spend a point of Pride to declare Trump"
QuoteShouldn't the spending of Valor say something specific to wanting to reinforce the natural order of the universe?Shouldn't the spending of Hubris say something specific about putting personal desire and will above order and stability?
QuoteQuote* You can spend Valor to improve attributes permanently (and without a lock!).* You can spend Pride to acquire Talismans. That's more along the lines of what I was thinking. Valor improves your personal effectiveness. Hubris does something else (I can't remember what Talismans are off hand).Quote(Note, I may interchange these abilities, so that both Valor and Pride can do both things here.)But this seems counterproductive to me, which makes me wonder if I'm really understanding what you're going for here.
QuoteHere again, I'm missing something. If I'm jonesing on Arete then I'm pretty much coming down on the side of achieving personal perfection and turning my back on the crutch of using supernatural power to get what I want. That's cool. That's VERY cool.But I'm not seeing how that has anything to do with challenging a Primarch and becomeing his champion. The ability to become a Primarch's champion is cool. But how does that as a reward feed into your initial premise.
QuoteI'm liking the idea alot, but perhaps the answer isn't just in adjusting "effectiveness" of what the characters do. Perhaps it also sets parameters around what they now can do that they couldn't before and what they now can no longer do that they used to be able to.
QuoteQuoteEither way, the choice addresses the premise, and it says something about how your character chooses to live in the world.That's the part I'm not seeing. And note, that isn't a challenge about it not being there. That's me saying I'm not sure I'm on the same page with you and needing a bit more help understanding your vision for it.
QuoteWhat happens in situations where a player uses Arete or Hubris for purposes that are counter to their side-effects?Most of the time using Arete or Hubris you produce an effect (this is what I'm trying to do), and a side-effect (this is how my method has an impact on the local Primarch), right?