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General Forge Forums => Actual Play => Topic started by: Lamorak33 on August 16, 2006, 03:51:09 PM

Title: Pissed off Pendragon
Post by: Lamorak33 on August 16, 2006, 03:51:09 PM

Had a funny gameexperience. I amusually a GM I suffer with control issues. That could explain this post. I am also very impulsive and can be a bit short if you yank my chain in the wrong way. I'm fluffy really, but I know what I like.

On with the game,

I turned up late (family issues) and hadno dice. The first roll that came up I had to borrow the GM's dice. As it turned out nobody had any dice but the GM. He said that its basically bad etiquette to use other peoples dice, and if folks dont bring their own, we dont play. I nearly choked on my beer. In 20 years I never heard such a crock of shit, but I bit my tongue. If its a big deal I'll bring my dice.....

The other thing is that our knights were passing the castle of our lords arch enemy.Now we had just saved a bunch of their knights in a skirmish, and we thought we would drop by and rub their noses in it. Maybe get a bit of a duel. You know, just have some fun.

Everything panned out as we expected and my character managed to pick a fight becuase I thought the GM's NPC  called my character a liar. Great so far.

Anyway we cut to the duel and I ask to go for inspiration. The GM says against what? I says against Honour. He says no, he didn't call you a liar, I says my character thinks he did. He says well you cant roll of inspiration. I says well I'll go for inspiration on my Loyalty Lord, seeing as I am in a duel with a knight from an enemy of my lord. Nope, nothaving that either. I am sure that he just didn't want me to have +10,not for any real game reasoning. So there I am, and I think fuck this I'm off. He can play my character if he wants seeing as he wont let me do what I think is totally justified. But I bite my tongue again and roll my dice and win. So we keep playing.

Do you think that I should talk to the GM, or am I being a dysfuntional player?


Title: Re: Pissed off Pendragon
Post by: Blankshield on August 16, 2006, 04:13:24 PM
Honestly?  Just sounds to me like you had a rough night, your GM maybe had a rough night, and you rubbed each other the wrong way.

Shrug and move on.  If it turns into a recurring pattern, then maybe you've got something.

hope that helps,


Title: Re: Pissed off Pendragon
Post by: Ron Edwards on August 16, 2006, 09:15:11 PM

James is right. One thing we can't do here is take sides in the specifics of a personal dispute during a game. It's a little like dealing with a couple on the rocks ... the guy bugs me for an hour with a tortuous anecdote about an argument and finishes by asking, "Can you believe she said that to me?" I bite my tongue and refrain from saying, "Dude, you two said 900 awful things to one another, and you want me to judge the one that happened to get under your skin?" Then I sigh and say it anyway.

I'd like to know more about the game in general, though. Have you been playing Pendragon together for a long time? Was this sequence, in terms of the fiction, that had been built up to through a series of events in play so far? How many other people were involved during the session you described?

Best, Ron

Title: Re: Pissed off Pendragon
Post by: Lamorak33 on August 17, 2006, 03:42:06 AM

There are three players, me, Alicia and James. Noel is the GM. We are on our 5th session (I have missed two of them due to just finishing up my degree, but I will be there every week now). I hooked up with Noel over the net, and we spoke about setting up a group. We got Alicia via the net, and James is a buddy of mine.

Its heavy sim, which is fine. I have no problem with that, sim is very much my CA. The thing is the gm doesn't appear to like the way that I play. I am a bit loud and can easily dominate a group, but I work very hard to make sure that everyone gets involved. I really do; Example, we entered this castle and I said that James or Alicia talk to the Castellan. I never butted in. You know I could see they expected me to just dive right in but I said, 'Hey, you guys don't come to watch me play do ya?'. You know, we really have a good laugh most of the time, but I sometimes get the impression that the GM wants to bring me down a peg or two. Its a personal feeling I get, and I guess that I dont want to invest my time in a game where I piss the guy off.

After I had set up the duel, I had a chat with the group. I asked if folks were pissed off with me. I stated that this was very much in character stuff, and checked if folks were cool with it. Because I picked up on a vibe from the GM I thought that I would ask him outright whether he felt my behaviour was disruptive. He said no, he could quite see that this is how my character is. His stats show a heady combination of reckless and boastful.

The thing is the in game situation came up because our characters are travelling to Wales. GM says, you are passing through so and so's lands, who is your Lords arch rival. Whats a guy sposed to do? Skulking is not knightly behaviour! I wonder if the game was sposed to pan out that way?

Hows that?


Title: Re: Pissed off Pendragon
Post by: Ron Edwards on August 17, 2006, 05:33:49 AM
Hi Rob,

I think you should consider that "I did it in character" carries no social weight among real persons. None at all.

Whatever you do at the table is subject to judgment, approval/disapproval, enjoyment/not, by everyone at the table.

- Consider that you'd probably not, oh, hawk up a loogey and spit it on the table in front of the other people, but would most likely, if the need arose, take a brief trip to the john.

- Well, in my many years of long experience at the role-playing table, I've learned that announcing actions for my character, and expecting the group to be involved in resolving and imagining them, is subject to the very same social rules. They can be surprised by my input, or disturbed, or in fear of what might happen next, but they cannot not like my input at a fundamental level. Or else it's like that loogey - I would merely have been being vile.

I am taking no sides and not telling you what you did wrong, or right for that matter. I wasn't at that table, and I don't know how they reacted or what they feel, or anything like that. Here are a couple of things I'm sure about, though.

1. "I plan to show up from now on" is a very weak counter-argument to "Rob hasn't shown up to play consistently," even if you mean it sincerely. You might consider that your presence at the game is in a kind of probation. (I don't know this for a fact; when I say consider, that's exactly what I mean.)

2. People rarely answer honestly when asked if they're upset at someone, even if they are deeply upset. In some groups, and among some people, asking "So, are you guys mad at me?" is a guarantee for them to grit their teeth and assure you that they are just fine ... and then to harbor resentment at being pushed into saying that. (Again, this is for you to consider - whether it applies in this case, I do not know.)

Best, Ron

Title: Re: Pissed off Pendragon
Post by: eruditus on August 17, 2006, 06:10:42 AM
I have problems.  I have social issues that I have to keep in check.  Oftimes I am overbearing and sometimes callous and I can admit that I have lost friends over this.  As such I tend to be pretty open with my current friend groups about this.  I try to apologize once I realize that I may have crossed the line and thank God I have a supportive wife that kindly lets me know when I have done so.

That being said, although I agree with Ron's assesment about people not necessarily being honest about their feelings toward you I think there IS value in these sorts of conversations as long as it's not self-congratulatory or pity-seeking.  It sounds like (fomr this limited perspective) that you were seeing if a talk with the GM would be warrented and that's a good step (especially if James is someone you know will "tell it lie it is."

Everyone here, of course, is right on target to say "gee, play it out and see how it goes" but a constant out-of-character reality check I have found goes a long way.  This is a social situation among new and old friends.  If everyone comes to the table with an open and honest dialogue then over time your overtures should be constructive.

Not to say that people should stick out some un-fun play but it seems like your just getting your feet wet in the game.  When you have established yourself with those consistent sessions then you may find comfort levels and play styles synching more effectively.

Let us know how the game's going.

Title: Re: Pissed off Pendragon
Post by: Lamorak33 on August 18, 2006, 07:23:52 AM

Spoke to James and he said that Noel really pissed him off with the dice comment!! He also moaned about Noel telling them the previous week how their characters should be acting.

I asked whether he felt I was disrupting play. He said my play was fine, but he was quiet on the night because he was pissed off already. I dont speak to Alicia outside of the game.

He agreed that he thought that Noel was being abitrary about the roll for inspiration for reasons that were non game related. He thought that he should have allowed me to roll.

I feel confident that this is actually how he feels, and wasn't just going along with me.


Title: Re: Pissed off Pendragon
Post by: Ron Edwards on August 18, 2006, 08:09:11 AM
Hi Rob,

I think this conversation is still skating around the issue of who was wrong or who was mad at whom or who was to blame. Those issues are juvenile and to address them is actually to avoid discussing what matters.

What matters is whether this group's Social Contract can reliably serve as a foundation, or context, for successfully fun play - for you. Here you are - not having been there consistently, walking into what appears to be something of a minefield of cross-cutting annoyances from person to person. You don't know how they arose, you don't know what feeds into play or what doesn't, and now one of the worst possible outcomes is occurring - people are talking behind one another's backs.

No one can solve this issue for you. You have to decide whether this group, these people, at this time, including yourself, are even able to handle the most basic necessities of role-playing together. If they and you cannot, then brace yourself for a lot of sessions like the one you described, mixed in with a lot of sort-of-OK sessions without much shared fun. If you think they and you can, well, OK, keep us posted on what happens as it goes.

This isn't about "playing right" or about "what my character would do." This is about the people. I'm not going to press for further information about them, although if I were more closely tied or involved, I'd look into whether a one-gal-plus-guys dynamic is present. However, that's not for this thread, I think, but rather for your own food for thought.

Best, Ron