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Independent Game Forums => glyphpress => Topic started by: TomTitTot on January 21, 2008, 07:30:44 PM



Title: [Shock] Escalation and Link-risking
Post by: TomTitTot on January 21, 2008, 07:30:44 PM
I posted these in the "Antagonist Story Goals" thread, but thing they won't be seen and besides, the other players in our game were wondering about these rules as well...

p.37 "Turning Up The Heat" - we are a bit foggy on escalation, in that sometimes we escalated as if the previous intent happened but then you faced an additional difficulty, and sometimes we escalated as if the previous intent just got harder or more serious. Are those both valid approaches to escalation, or is there one correct way to do it?

p.38 "This Result Sucks" - can you risk a link to make the antagonist reroll her conflict, in hopes of a failure? Or does it only apply to Protag success?

Thanks!


Title: Re: [Shock] Escalation and Link-risking
Post by: Joshua A.C. Newman on January 21, 2008, 11:07:58 PM
1: When you Escalate, you're saying that now this *other* thing is *also* implicated, or maybe somethng *bigger* is implicated. So if you lose, you lose the whole thing.

2: You know, I've been thinking a lot about that. The official answer is that you can only reroll your own failure, but I can't remember why I made the rule that way. So, unofficially, yes, you can. Let me know how it works!


Title: Re: [Shock] Escalation and Link-risking
Post by: TempvsMortis on May 13, 2008, 08:36:16 PM
Yeah, both of these areas were by far the most ambiguous and confusing.

1: So when you get an escalation, you re-roll just your own dice and narrate the scene to somehow show that your goal is a lot more serious than you previous thought, and/or that something much bigger is coming into play? And if you and the Antag both roll your fulcra, then you both escalate and re-roll?

2: So does the Antagonist get to re-choose a praxis and re-roll as well? Do you get to change your die divisions (change what proportion is d4 and what proportion is d10)? And also, realistically, if it's supposed to be a separate conflict that takes place after the previous, then what's the point of doing it at all? Isn't it supposed to save you from failure, like if you're going to be shot in the leg and you lost? If you lose and it takes place afterward how does it help your leg get un-shot? Shouldn't it really just put the conflict on hold and raise the stakes of the pre-existing conflict that you were going to fail?


Title: Re: [Shock] Escalation and Link-risking
Post by: Joshua A.C. Newman on May 13, 2008, 08:58:37 PM
1: The Antag can't roll your fulcrum. Zie's rolling hir own d10s on hir own Fulcra. But yeah, it's something more serious than you thought at first. So if the Protag player has to escalate, zie rerolls hir d10s and the Antag player rerolls hir d4s.

2: No, the Antag doesn't choose. Only the Protag's Intent (in this case — they might both have to escalate, based on their own dice) is rerolled. No, you don't re-choose your dice. The Protag (in this case) rerolls hir d10s only and the Antag rerolls hir d4s only.

Are you saying that your Intent was "I don't get shot"? That's not a very good Intent. Your opposition is more likely saying, "I shoot you" and your d4s say, "No suh."

So let's say your Intent is, "I kill the guy." You might escalate to "I shoot him and I get his ID card so I can get into his office." Or maybe, "I shoot his whole family." It's a chance to up the stakes in your favor. It's kind of a *good* thing for you, particularly if you're a Protag.

Keep in mind that, if a Minutia die makes you escalate, the Audience member who played that die gets to say what the escalation is. It might not be to your benefit: "You shoot the guy, or if you fail, you get arrested."

I played in a game once where I escalated from "I steal the drugs" to "I don't get caught stealing the drugs" to "I keep from getting beaten to death for stealing drugs."

I got beat to death.


Title: Re: [Shock] Escalation and Link-risking
Post by: TempvsMortis on May 13, 2008, 09:06:35 PM
ROFLMAO

Okay, but in the book I don't see where it mentions anything happening if you roll your Fulcrum without the aid or hindrance of a spectator.


Title: Re: [Shock] Escalation and Link-risking
Post by: TempvsMortis on May 13, 2008, 09:09:53 PM
Oh, yeah, I forgot. #2 Was talking about risking a Link for a re-roll.


Title: Re: [Shock] Escalation and Link-risking
Post by: TempvsMortis on May 13, 2008, 09:13:42 PM
Also, what I meant about escalation and the antag was, what if the antag rolls hir fulcrum? Would the antag then escalate? (Damn, you REALLY need an edit button, or does the Forge not have that?)


Title: Re: [Shock] Escalation and Link-risking
Post by: Joshua A.C. Newman on May 13, 2008, 09:21:01 PM
The Forge assumes that you're carefully writing and editing. There is no edit button. Consider carefully before you post.

Only the final, modified result of the roll matters. If it's on a Fulcrum, you escalate whether or not Minutić got you there.

Yes, the Antagonist can escalate, just like the Protag can.

When the Protag risks a Link, zie's rerolling hir d10s (with another d10 from having just gained a new Feature from having lost the previous round) and the Antag is rolling hir d4s. The roll has to implicate the Link being risked somehow.


Title: Re: [Shock] Escalation and Link-risking
Post by: TempvsMortis on May 13, 2008, 09:28:55 PM
Yeah, that bit about rolling the d10s of the protag and the d4s of the antag wasn't in it. And my point about the conflict still stands. What if what you're doing is trying to prevent something bad, though not the bad thing the antagonist is doing, that would have an immediate effect and you fail? If you then risk a link, it says in the book that it's a separate event, though time may or may not have passed. I thought when you risked a link you were sort of prolonging the outcome to see what would happen. If it is, then you can't really prevent what happened to you, you're just having more conflict, which you could have anyway by just having more conflict in the story.


Title: Re: [Shock] Escalation and Link-risking
Post by: TempvsMortis on May 16, 2008, 08:52:28 AM
Okay, so about spectator dice, I know you can reference any minutia in the pile (right?), but if you're coming up with a new one you can reference something you don't own (right?), but what if the person who does own that issue or shock says that what you're doing is wrong? I get the whole point of the "if someone seconds it" but if that can be anyone, even someone who doesn't own the issue/shock, then what's really the point of owning an issue/shock? Isn't it supposed to grant you some authority over that area that other people can't have?


Title: Re: [Shock] Escalation and Link-risking
Post by: Joshua A.C. Newman on May 16, 2008, 11:27:25 AM
Dude, I already wrote a *whole book* about this.

If someone else owns the thing your Minutia is about, they have to OK it.


Title: Re: [Shock] Escalation and Link-risking
Post by: TempvsMortis on May 16, 2008, 11:29:49 AM
No, I know it's in the book. A) I wanted to make sure, and B) Specifically, in the section where it talks about minutiae dice it makes it sound like you can just use whatever.


Title: Re: [Shock] Escalation and Link-risking
Post by: Joshua A.C. Newman on May 16, 2008, 12:31:35 PM
The rule is, "You can make something up. All orther rules still apply."


Title: Re: [Shock] Escalation and Link-risking
Post by: Mel White on May 28, 2008, 07:11:16 AM
p.38 "This Result Sucks" - can you risk a link to make the antagonist reroll her conflict, in hopes of a failure? Or does it only apply to Protag success?
You know, I've been thinking a lot about that. The official answer is that you can only reroll your own failure, but I can't remember why I made the rule that way. So, unofficially, yes, you can. Let me know how it works!
This came up in a recent game I played!  There was a lot of gnashing of teeth regarding the inability to make the Antagonist reroll.  You've just made some players very happy!
Mel


Title: Re: [Shock] Escalation and Link-risking
Post by: Joshua A.C. Newman on May 28, 2008, 11:58:56 AM
I've been playing that way, too. It works great.

Consider it an official rule!

(I suspect that the rule worked that way because I wanted the Antagonist to be able to apply pressure, but shit, that's *super* applying pressure: now zie can fuck with your mom!)