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Archive => Indie Game Design => Topic started by: philreed on April 08, 2003, 06:01:52 AM



Title: 24 Hour Game
Post by: philreed on April 08, 2003, 06:01:52 AM
For years I've considered creating a 24 hour comic.

http://www.scottmccloud.com/inventions/24hr/dare/dare.html

But maybe it would be more fun to create a 24 hour RPG. A 24 page RPG completed in 24 hours. Any others out there think this would be fun? Maybe we could stage a weekend when several of us do this at once and then share the results at the end of the weekend.


Title: 24 Hour Game
Post by: Jonathan Walton on April 08, 2003, 06:48:38 AM
Actually, I've thought about that for a while now.  The problem is that RPGs don't have a set number of pages or concepts to work out.  Part of the fun of the 24 Hour Comic is that you do one page every hour.

Maybe we could simulate that if the project had to include artwork and layout too.  You'd write a page, sketch some pictures, and do the layout for it all in a single hour.  Then, you'd move on to the next page.  At the end of it all, you'd have a 24-page PDF.

I'd be up for something like that.


Title: Yes, that's what I was thinking.
Post by: philreed on April 08, 2003, 07:14:40 AM
Quote from: Jonathan Walton
AMaybe we could simulate that if the project had to include artwork and layout too.  You'd write a page, sketch some pictures, and do the layout for it all in a single hour.  Then, you'd move on to the next page.  At the end of it all, you'd have a 24-page PDF.

I'd be up for something like that.


I should have been clearer. At the end of 24 hours we would each have a PDF that is a completed 24 page game (maybe 25 if we include a cover). Then trade PDFs with everyone involved.

This would be fun.


Title: 24 Hour Game
Post by: Ron Edwards on April 08, 2003, 07:16:57 AM
H'm,

I like the idea that format is irrelevant. In fact, I was under the impression that a 24-hour comic was not constrained to creating one page per hour; it's a retroactive rate issue, not a 1 page:1 hour issue as you go.

I also don't think any length limit would be appropriate. If the creator calls it a "complete" game, well, then that's one of the interesting individual variables that will be revealed by having lots of these.

H'mmm ... it might also be interesting to leave the kind of RPG completely open, to distinguish this project from Mike's twice-yearly Iron Chef exercise.

I don't have the 24 hours to spare ... but if I did, I would be on this instantly. Phil, you're nominated - define the project a little further, and initiate it whenever you'd like.

Best,
Ron


Title: The 24 Hour Game
Post by: philreed on April 08, 2003, 07:51:06 AM
Here's a first shot at something:

Inspired by Scott McCloud’s “24 Hour Comic,” the 24 hour game is an exercise in forced creativity. Can you create, in a 24 hour period, a complete roleplaying game including all system design, writing, artwork, production, and conversion to PDF? This exercise allows you to test the limits of your own abilities.

The Rules:

No pre-planning. You may not work on the RPG before your 24 hour period starts. This means no pre-creation of a system, no preparing vignettes or setting text, no artwork . . . nothing! It is understood that your 24 hour game may use elements of previous ideas, dreams, or game systems but you agree that all work on the game is to be done in a single 24 hour block of time.

No Limit on Size. My original idea was that the 24 hour game would be a 24 page RPG. Ron Edwards suggested that there be no size minimum or maximum and after some thought I agree with him. What do you feel is a complete RPG? This exercise will show the world what your concept of complete is.

You Must Do All Of the Work Yourself. This means no friends assisting you with editing or artwork. Do it yourself. Show us what you can do. Clip-art is, of course, legal.

All Participants Trade PDFs at the end of the project. When the chosen weekend is over all participants will exchange PDFs. This is your chance to see how your work measures up against that of others operating under the same duress as yourself. This may very well be the most important part of the exercise since you’re very likely to learn some new ways of doing things just by looking at the accomplishments of others.

What Happens If I Don’t Finish?

There’s a very good chance that many of the participants will not complete a game within 24 hours. These unfinished projects should still be shared with the group and, if your head isn’t in too much pain, you should consider completing the RPG as you have time,

Who Will Participate

Anyone who wants to. Post here if you want to be a part of this experiment.

When Will This Happen?

This is open to discussion. I feel a weekend would work best but what weekend exactly?



Inspirational Link: http://www.scottmccloud.com/inventions/24hr/dare/dare.html


Title: 24 Hour Game
Post by: Jonathan Walton on April 08, 2003, 07:55:44 AM
Quote from: Ron Edwards
In fact, I was under the impression that a 24-hour comic was not constrained to creating one page per hour; it's a retroactive rate issue, not a 1 page:1 hour issue as you go.


Yeah, and I think Phil implied that in his response to me.  24 pages in 24 hours.  It doesn't matter when you do individual pages.

Quote
I also don't think any length limit would be appropriate.


Well, I think it would be okay to do MORE than 24 pages, but doing less seems to violate the whole idea.  I could whip up a complete game in 6-8 hours, complete with artwork and layout, but it would probably only be 6-8 pages long.  The real fun of a 24-hour project is that it should be a squeeze to complete it all in 24 hours.

Anyway, I'll be interested in any guidelines that Phil manages to write up.  

It'd be neat too if, like Iron Chef, the participants could post results and bits of the game on a Forum thread as the contest takes place.  However, that might be too much to ask, since everyone would be focused on creating their game and not writing on the forums.

EDIT: Cross-posted with Phil.  I still believe that setting a minimum number of pages might be important.


Title: Re: The 24 Hour Game
Post by: bluegargantua on April 08, 2003, 09:50:28 AM
Quote from: philreed

All Participants Trade PDFs at the end of the project. When the chosen weekend is over all participants will exchange PDFs. This is your chance to see how your work measures up against that of others operating under the same duress as yourself. This may very well be the most important part of the exercise since you’re very likely to learn some new ways of doing things just by looking at the accomplishments of others.


I'm interested in this concept.  However, this also brings up a new question:

I can't create PDF's!  What do I do?

My proposed solution:  HTML is also an acceptable format.

I suppose that if it *must* be a PDF, I'll just play the shadow game and compete during the same period of time and just put up my "unsactioned" results for perusal.

later
Tom


Title: 24 Hour Game
Post by: Simon W on April 08, 2003, 10:35:22 AM
can it be based on a book or tv/movie etc or does it have to be pure invention?


Bluegargatua wrote

Quote
I can't create PDF's! What do I do?


There are free pdf makers out there blue. Try here

http://www.pdf995.com/

Gideon


Title: Original Creation and HTML Sounds Cool
Post by: philreed on April 08, 2003, 12:33:29 PM
I think it should be an original creation. Being inspired by other things is cool and all but I think you'll be happier in the end if you don't write "The Simpsons RPG."

And I think creating HTML files for a game would be cool. But it's worth looking into the free PDF creators. Or maybe we should revise things to make it legal for a participant to have his work converted to PDF by someone else.

Maybe this should be an exercise in working with others and artwork by others is allowed. But only if you acquire that artwork during the 24 hour period. Ideas?


Title: 24 Hour Game
Post by: anonymouse on April 08, 2003, 02:11:43 PM
I vote for "no outside help at all". If converting to .PDF is unavailable, we just need to determine what other filetype(s) will be acceptable; .DOC could work as a substitute, I think.


Title: 24 Hour Game
Post by: Thomas Tamblyn on April 08, 2003, 02:34:17 PM
I agree on the no-help thing for what its worth.

Sure, some people can't draw worth spit, but importantly, time spent doing art is time spent not brainstorming and time spent not writing the game.  Art for these won't be eyecandy, its putting work into creating a feel for the game and that can be done just as easily through writing or layout.

My big reservation about this project is, a game about WHAT?

its all very well to say make an rpg in 24 hours but surely there needs to be some starting point or (I for one) will spend that 24 hours just deciding WHAT rpg I'll write.

Howabout all aentrants have to submit a game idea - that necessitates some thinking ahead of time, but everyone gets the same advantage.  Oh - and if halfway through you realise that its going nowhere but your mechanics are perfect for idea Y then you finish Y and submit it- Thats cool too.  Or at leask I reckon it should be.


Title: No Advance Work
Post by: philreed on April 08, 2003, 03:27:25 PM
Determining in advance what your game will be about kills a lot of the challenge. Creativity under pressure can often result in something you would have never done if you were given time to sit and think.

And if your idea of a complete RPG means no artwork then that's fine. As I mentioned, the end result of this project will show others what you consider a complete RPG.


Title: 24 Hour Game
Post by: anonymouse on April 08, 2003, 04:15:24 PM
Let's decide on a time, then. It's rather hard to say, "We're going to have a little event (not really a contest, I imagine) to write RPGs based on a time constraint," and then expect everyone to not think about what they want to do. ;)

So:

I'd say start at 9:00 AM local time, on Saturday. End twenty-four hours later. We need to have some central repository for the .pdf and .doc files, I imagine; is the Forge up for that? Or should someone create some quick web-space on Geocities or such?


Title: 24 Hour Game
Post by: Jonathan Walton on April 08, 2003, 04:29:03 PM
Can't people just post links to their finished PDF on this thread?  Surely each of us can find some webspace to put it in.  I'll volunteer to host anyone that can't find anything.  That way we can go check everyone else's out and the forum will log what time they're posted.  

And if we're going to vary by time zone, why do we all have to start at 9?  I probably won't get up and rolling until pretty late on the weekends.  Say, start whenever you like, but projects are due by noon on Sunday.  That mean that Chris (Pale Fire), if he decides to participate, would get his in by midnight our time, since he's over in Taiwan.


Title: 24 Hour Game
Post by: anonymouse on April 08, 2003, 04:54:11 PM
The trick is to still limit it based on twenty-four hours of work time.

What about this, then?

When you begin work on your project, post to the thread. Then, within 24 hours, post the link to it (you're right in that we don't have to centralise distribution).

I guess at that point, we really don't even need a specific start-time. How about designating what's left of April as 24-Hour RPG Month? ;) Pick a 24 hour period, write your thing, post a link.


Title: 24 Hour Game
Post by: Jonathan Walton on April 08, 2003, 05:16:18 PM
Full agreement with Michael, though I'd like an idea about when everyone's going to do theirs, so I could aim for the same time period.


Title: 24 Hour Game
Post by: philreed on April 08, 2003, 05:19:11 PM
Quote from: anonymouse
When you begin work on your project, post to the thread. Then, within 24 hours, post the link to it (you're right in that we don't have to centralise distribution).

I guess at that point, we really don't even need a specific start-time. How about designating what's left of April as 24-Hour RPG Month? ;) Pick a 24 hour period, write your thing, post a link.


This sounds perfect to me.


Title: 24 Hour Game
Post by: James V. West on April 08, 2003, 05:35:50 PM
I'm in! I'm in!

I can't believe this thread was here! I kid you not when I say I was typing up a suggestion for exactly the same thing to post here!

I dont' know if any of you have done it before, but I took the 24 Hour Challenge a couple of years ago. WOOOHOOO! It's a liberating experience.

No one has ever seen the book before now... but it will be available from me in print in a matter of, say, a week.

Now, as far as the rules go for this project I think I dig them all. Most importantly:

1) No pre-conceptions. Excercise your creative muscles under pressure! Obviously this will be an honor system rule.

2) No help from anyone else.

3) Must be completed, packaged, and ready to play within 24 hours.

Coolness.

If I don't have to work, I might be up for this on this coming Saturday.


Title: 24 Hour Game
Post by: Jeph on April 08, 2003, 06:03:42 PM
I'm definitely in. But two problems.

*I won't have access to a computer Saturday.
*I have no. fricking. Idea. at. all. about how to put ANYTHING on the web.

If those two bugs are flyswatted, I'm in!


Title: 24 Hour Game
Post by: anonymouse on April 08, 2003, 07:59:46 PM
Well, I think I'll start mine Friday evening (maybe 8p-9p PST); I'm not working on Saturday, but am Sunday, and would prefer to get some sleep beforehand. ;)

I've got a great idea for a 24 hour game now, since my first thought on reading the thread was, "Well, what would I do for that kind of thing?" Except now I can't use it. Augh. ;)

Jeph: it's pretty easy. Head over to Geocities or Yahoo or somewhere else with some free web-space, sign up for a page, and follow the directions. Maybe setup your web-space now so that, when you're ready to post, you don't lose an hour trying to figure stuff out. ;)


Title: 24 Hour Game
Post by: MPOSullivan on April 08, 2003, 09:24:17 PM
well, i may be jumping the gun, but i was hit with an idea earlier this evening and i don't want to wait and let the game settle in my head too much and ruin the fun for me.  i've just sat down and sifted through some notes to start creating a game.  hopefully it won't be a complete piece of shit when i'm done in twentyfour hours.  my start time is 12.30 am eastern standard.  maybe have a new game for you guys tomorrow.

see what happens when a lurker actually pops his head up?

laters!

    -m


Title: Great idea. My timing sucks.
Post by: iago on April 08, 2003, 11:30:55 PM
It's my great curse that for NaNoWriMo style stuff (which I see this as a variety of), I'm never available during the time period it's occurring in.  This weekend is a bad weekend for me, and if I don't eat a weekend day doing it, I'm cheating myself of continuous time to work on the project.

Maybe I'll be a very-late entrant sometime next week. :P


Title: Good luck!
Post by: philreed on April 09, 2003, 01:45:22 AM
I wish I could do mine today but I have too much work and a convention Saturday. Maybe I'll get to mine Sunday but it's more likely to be the next weekend.

And to the currently working designer, I hope things are going well for you.


Title: 24 Hour Game
Post by: Jonathan Walton on April 09, 2003, 08:46:49 AM
JEPH: If you let me know when your game is going to be done, and email it to me, I can make sure I'll be home in time to post it for you.  And, with the current guidelines, you don't have to do it on Saturday.  Just pick a day.

To everyone else, bring the pain!  I'm going to do mine sometime this weekend or early next week (skipping all my classes for a day).  Now, I just have to NOT think about a concept until then.


Title: 24 Hour Game
Post by: Mike Holmes on April 09, 2003, 08:48:39 AM
This all has my juices going for my next Iron Game Chef competition. Look for it early next month. I am giving some real consideration to the subject matter already.

Mike


Title: 24 Hour Game
Post by: iago on April 09, 2003, 10:54:19 AM
Quote from: Mike Holmes
This all has my juices going for my next Iron Game Chef competition. Look for it early next month. I am giving some real consideration to the subject matter already.

Mike


Iron Ref!  Love it.  Cooked up a little CGI that, among other things, pulls the GURPS catalog listing.  Genre clash, ho!

http://www.iago.net/ironref/


Title: 24 Hour Game
Post by: Jeph on April 09, 2003, 11:09:54 AM
Jonathan: Thanks! I'll probably do it sometime next weekend, as I'm away this Saturday, and have a game on Sunday.


Title: 24 Hour Game
Post by: MPOSullivan on April 09, 2003, 12:00:28 PM
okay, after pulling an all-nighter, the core of the game is complete and i've laid out a cover for it.  i've written the majority of the text, coming in at ten single spaced pages, all very economic, with very little in the way of flavor text and the like.  i've found during this experience that going through this forces you to get every idea you have on the table in one shot and can maybe inprove the creative process by using it as a starting point, going back the next day and refining things from there.  

while the game isn't done yet, i think i've run into a problem.  how should i post this sucker?  i don't have a website to plug it into or anything.  should i just get a quick angelfire one and put it on there?  suggestions are greatly appreciated! ;-)

now i'm just working out the kinks and it should be ready to go tonight.  Mind you though, i've pulled an all-nighter on this and am still going so typos will be present and play-testing was non-existant, so please be gentle.  ;-)

Laters,
  -michael

...still trying to figure out why his computer doesn't want to convert this damned file over to PDF...


Title: What the hell
Post by: iago on April 09, 2003, 12:02:15 PM
Well, I think I'll try it today.  I'm sick and holed up and home and feeling poorly enough not to be able to exercise my job skills (coding), so this may well be a hoot.  Good thing I tend to be able to write and think about gaming in my sleep, but we'll see if this project fails due to the drugs kicking in or not.  Altered state game design -- wave of the future.

Start: 1pm Pacific, 9 Apr 2003.


Title: 24 Hour Game
Post by: iago on April 09, 2003, 12:05:27 PM
Quote from: Zathreyel
while the game isn't done yet, i think i've run into a problem.  how should i post this sucker?  i don't have a website to plug it into or anything.  should i just get a quick angelfire one and put it on there?  suggestions are greatly appreciated!


I've created this:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/24HourGames/

Feel free to join and use it to post your PDFs, folks.  I'll make the group as open to the world as I can manage.


Title: 24 Hour Game
Post by: Ron Edwards on April 09, 2003, 12:39:04 PM
Hi Phil,

Wow! Please feel free to consider yourself in charge of the "24-hour Forge Game," just as Mike's in charge of the Iron Chef Game. That means that it can be a regular event at the site, initiated only by you, and under your control essentially as a moderator. All I ask is that it's not too frequent - for instance, the Iron Chef is limited to every six months.

This is awesome.

Best,
Ron


Title: 24 Hour Game
Post by: Matt Wilson on April 09, 2003, 12:47:37 PM
Hey, am I understanding correctly that I can pick any 24-hour slot in April? If so, I'm going to figure out a date to try it.


Title: 24 Hour Game
Post by: iago on April 09, 2003, 02:40:28 PM
Quote from: Matt Wilson
Hey, am I understanding correctly that I can pick any 24-hour slot in April? If so, I'm going to figure out a date to try it.

I think most people are targetting this upcoming weekend, but some of us can't manage it, and that's just fine.  Do it when you can.  IMO.


Title: 24 Hour Game
Post by: Simon W on April 09, 2003, 02:44:03 PM
Yeh,
I'd like to start straight away but other commitments......... well you know.

I'll probably do something one day next week, or next weekend.

Trouble is I keep getting all these ideas right now......

Gideon
http://www.geocities.com/simonwashbourne/Beyond_Belief.html


Title: 24 Hour Game
Post by: talysman on April 09, 2003, 05:05:16 PM
argh!

well, I would like to participate in the 24-hour game, but the best time -- when I'm not likely to be interrupted -- would be saturday... only I had two rpg ideas last night (when I was trying to sleep) and another earlier today.

I admire Jared for creating a couple hundred rpgs, but I don't want to become like him in the space of a single week!

I will try to whip something up on saturday if I have any ideas left by then.

in the meantime, here are some general thoughts I had about this exercise: you may want to rethink the 24 pages stipulation. I realize the original concept (the 24-hour comic book challenge) used 24 pages, plus there's the good point that we do want to see a minimum effort, but 24 pages of RPG in 24 hours may be pushing it. a good comic artist can probably draw a page in less than an hour, leaving time for brainstorming and scriptwriting; but an RPG has more words, so it takes longer to fill up a page.

still, it may be possible to do a 24-page rpg. here are some things to consider...

first, the cover. it's basically title + by-line, in a fancy font, maybe with some artwork. you should be able to finish that page quickly. also, if you do three chapters (chargen, rules of play, game background) with each chapter beginning on its own page, that eats up a little more space and is a good return on time spent for layout. it also gives you an opportunity to do a one-page table of contents, which your word processor should be able to do for you.

if you can create artwork fast, art can also eat up space, but you have to be able to do a quarter-page illustration in less than 15 minutes to make it worth it.

tables eat up more space than time needed to generated them. if you have four or more tables scattered throughout the text, you can duplicate them on a photocopiable "cheat sheet" in the appendix.

a simple character sheet can be a good time investment, too.

game mechanics can't be too fancy. basically, you want to take 2-4 interesting mechanics from other games, merge them quickly, and change some terms for Color. you don't have time to agonize over dice probabilities or effects on strategy.

this is all basically stuff I considered about how one would actually go about writing a 24-page rpg in 24 hours. I don't know if this counts as "helping" anyone or not.


Title: Re: The 24 Hour Game
Post by: szilard on April 09, 2003, 05:09:08 PM
Quote from: philreed
.

The Rules:

You Must Do All Of the Work Yourself. This means no friends assisting you with editing or artwork. Do it yourself. Show us what you can do. Clip-art is, of course, legal.


hmmm...

No collaborations, then?


Stuart


Title: Re: The 24 Hour Game
Post by: iago on April 09, 2003, 05:20:03 PM
Quote from: szilard
Quote from: philreed
.

The Rules:

You Must Do All Of the Work Yourself. This means no friends assisting you with editing or artwork. Do it yourself. Show us what you can do. Clip-art is, of course, legal.


No collaborations, then?


I, personally, don't have a problem with collaborations, but I think the requirements in such a circumstance should be "multiplied" by the number of people working together, in some fashion, to represent the fact that you're able to get more done in that timeframe.  

But since we seem to be moving away from a minimum page-count, that's a little hard to achieve.  With a minimum page count, well then, you just add 24 pages for each participant, but I'm not sure that's the right thing to do.

So, what...? 2-person games in 12 hours?  3-person games in 8?  But are we really doing more than 8 or 12 hours of work as solo folks?

As I talk through it, I think it raises too many questions without easy answers -- probably best to stick with the solo intention (the comic book contest did, after all) for its first outing.

Caveat here being that I am not phil.

I am, however, almost done with my eighth page (like I said, this weekend is bad, and I am home sick today) of pure raw text.   I can't see there being many more pages until the core of the game is done.

As others have pointed out, illustrations are in the offing, for me, thanks to clipart.com.  Tables and appendices and character sheets are certainly a possibility as well.  

I think I'm somewhat handicapped by not having a setting attached to the game, but that's a bed I made for myself, not a complaint.  24 pages is a worthy goal, at least.  I'll reach for it, but I am not sure I'll grasp it.

The point is the trying.


Title: Re: The 24 Hour Game
Post by: talysman on April 09, 2003, 05:29:00 PM
Quote from: iago
I think I'm somewhat handicapped by not having a setting attached to the game, but that's a bed I made for myself, not a complaint.  24 pages is a worthy goal, at least.  I'll reach for it, but I am not sure I'll grasp it.


maybe not at all... setting material takes more words and time than tables, charts, illustrations, plus more detailed settings require more careful planning. I think a 24-hour rpg needs to be setting-light. a couple pages.

consider Trollbabe. the setting has a definite feel to it, but there's not much details; just a run-down of the distinctions and relationships between trolls and humans, plus a map. I think that's about how much setting you would want in a 24-hour rpg.


Title: 24 Hour Game
Post by: James V. West on April 09, 2003, 05:54:10 PM
Maniacs! Go!

Hope Iago and Michael are not seeing stars yet.

Just thougth of a weird difference between this project and the standard 24 hour comic challenge. With the comic, you know when you're done. 24 pages is it. When I did mine I actually crashed and slept 4 hours halfway through by pacing myself so I knew I'd finish in time. With a game it's not going to be so easy. You can always go back and edit and redo and exand it right up to the deadline.


Title: 24 Hour Game
Post by: iago on April 09, 2003, 06:02:23 PM
Quote from: James V. West
Hope Iago and Michael are not seeing stars yet.


My god, it's full of, etc.  It's going well enough...  I'm lucky in that I was gripped by a pretty strong concept.  And you make a good point about the ability to go back and revise.  I tend to write pretty lean, but in order to at least strive for the higher page count, I find myself going back and putting in all those examples I usually leave out.  It's good discipline.


Title: 24 Hour Game
Post by: Jonathan Walton on April 09, 2003, 06:06:46 PM
Well, turns out the most time I'll have to do this is probably... tonight.

I've been thinking about/working on the project for the past 15 minutes, so I'll count that as a beginning.  I'm basically taking this opportunity to finish developing an idea that I probably would never have gotten around to otherwise.

MARK: Wed 9:45 PM.
GAME DUE: Thurs 9:45 PM.

For those of you who want a peek at what's coming (and have a fast connection), you can check out the 500+K pdf of the cover, here (http://1001.indie-rpgs.com/images/Vespertine.pdf) (what I have to show for 15 minutes of messing around with Photoshop.


Title: 24 Hour Game
Post by: James V. West on April 09, 2003, 06:33:20 PM
Impromptu suggestion:

No one should post comments about any works-in-progress. Such comments could be used as "help", which is strictly forbidden in a 24 hour project.

Isolation is important. This is about one person and one idea.


Title: Re: What the hell
Post by: iago on April 09, 2003, 07:38:02 PM
Quote from: iago
Start: 1pm Pacific, 9 Apr 2003.


8:30pm.  I'm into my 12th page of text, I have a table of contents included in that, and the Sudafed is probably going to render this a non-proofread manuscript.  I think I'll make my peace with that over dinner, then come back, finish up the text, and start thinking about illustrations and covers and the like.


Title: 24 Hour Game
Post by: MPOSullivan on April 09, 2003, 08:46:59 PM
Alright, the first of the 24HourRPGs is up, it seems.  My submission is called Criminal Element and is a game that hopes to emulate great crime thriller and caper novels and films.  System-wise it's kind of influenced by Torchbearer and Dust Devils I think.  It's in need of an overhaul as it was written in 24 hours, but the game i think is kind of fun.  13 pages, including cover, no table of contents or anything looking remotely nice though.  Everything is pretty damned bare bones.  the game is posted in DOC format.  No PDF yet, but one will be up later tonight.

alright ladies and gentlemen, tear into it and tell me what you think.  Hope you all don't get turned off by my attempt at goodness!  ;-)

and as a side note, 24 Hour Comics don't make 24 pages in 24 hours, they simply try to.  As for the RPG attempt, i've gotta say that 24 pages of RPG is kind of arbitrary as there is no standard for RPG book lengths.

Laters,

    -Michael


Title: 24 Hour Game
Post by: Jonathan Walton on April 09, 2003, 09:53:21 PM
2:00 AM, starting from 9:45 PM.

5 pages, including a cover, in 4 hours.  Conceptually, things are going pretty well, and I think I'm going to include a ton of artwork to provide color (and because it's faster to create pages that way instead of typing).  The hard part comes in deciding how closely I want to stick to source material and how much I should deviate.

Right now, I'm going to grab a few hours of sleep, see what inspiration I can find in dreams, and then start up again really early.

Goodnight all.


Title: Behold! The first and possibly only draft of Pace
Post by: iago on April 09, 2003, 11:27:50 PM
I started this about 11.5 hours ago.  Here's a 16-page RPG with a cover, table of contents, clip art illustrations, and what is hopefully an interesting little diceless resource allocation mechanic at the core of it.  You'll need Acrobat Reader 5.something to view it, since my DTP program informed me it needed to be 5.something to use all the features I apparently wanted.  I'm pretty much fine with that.

At any rate, there may be some more revisions in store -- hell, I have an idea for an appendix on using the notions from the system with other games -- but given my health, level of medication, and the possible need to try to do my real job tomorrow in spite of all that, this may end up being the final draft.

At any rate, you can pick this -- and possibly others -- up from the Yahoo Group I created for people to upload their creations from this activity.  Feel free to put yours there as well!

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/24HourGames/files/


Title: Damn, people!
Post by: philreed on April 10, 2003, 05:18:01 AM
I go the office for a day, come home and sleep, and then find this. You guys kick ass!

Don't give these away to everyone in the world. Maybe we can bundle them and sell them as PDF with all proceeds going to advertising the project and The Forge. The final PDF collection would include advertising for each contributor and all of the games (even partials) created during the established timeframe. And, of course, each creator owns his own game so that you could always go off and revise and expand (or reduce) it.

I'm now going to take some time to read the two completed games.


Title: Oh god!
Post by: philreed on April 10, 2003, 05:24:41 AM
As I opened up and started reading the Criminal Element PDF I suddenly realized that I've done something similar to this before. Vigilante was done over a 24 hour period (I remember starting one evening about 5 pm . . . Christopher Shy came by and I was working on the cover which was looking pretty cool. About 9 the next morning I was finished).

http://www.sjgames.com/vigilante/

It's only 16 pages and not really a game but realizing I did this I'm a bit more confident about actually finishing a game in 24 hours.

I'm really excited about this now. Thank you everyone who is participating . . . it feels like I'm wasting less of my life knowing that others are in the trenches attempting this insanity.


Title: 24 Hour Game
Post by: MPOSullivan on April 10, 2003, 10:20:26 AM
okay, i'll admit to it, i can't stop working on this damned game.  is it okay if i declare the Eastman option (as seen at the 24 hour comic site) and continue working stratight on through until completion and still submit the new stuff?

by the way, pace is nice dude.  good work, real slick looking.  what'd you use to lay out your pages?

    -michael


Title: 24 Hour Game
Post by: iago on April 10, 2003, 10:40:03 AM
Quote from: Zathreyel
okay, i'll admit to it, i can't stop working on this damned game.  is it okay if i declare the Eastman option (as seen at the 24 hour comic site) and continue working stratight on through until completion and still submit the new stuff?


Well, that's a "failure is success" option, so to speak, but I don't think any of us will turn away something created in the heat of the 24 Hour crucible.

Again, I'm not phil. ;)

Quote
by the way, pace is nice dude.  good work, real slick looking.  what'd you use to lay out your pages?


A trial version of InDesign that's due to expire in 2 days. Luckily, I should be buying it through a student friend sometime soon.  Thanks a lot!


Title: 24 Hour Game
Post by: Shreyas Sampat on April 10, 2003, 11:35:33 AM
Another thought - the 24 hour comic thing is somewhat of a thing that writers do, rather than an event.

Is there anything wrong with making the 24 hour RPG the same thing?  I really want to do this, but my exam period is coming up, and there is no way that I can spare a random 24 hours in the month of April.  Late May, sure, but according to the current rules, that doesn't quite count.

Michael, thanks for the shoutout in Criminal Element.  I liked your titling font a lot.  The titles in general do a lot for the game... Inspirato! was awesome.


Title: Update to Pace
Post by: iago on April 10, 2003, 11:55:04 AM
I realized I still had an hour to go, so I wrote up a one-page appendix and did a few tiny formatting tweaks to the Pace document.  Other than the appendix, however, the content is functionally identical.

And here, 7 minutes before my personal deadline of 1pm 10 Apr 2003, I call Pace as complete as it's going to get, clocking in at 17 pages including a table of contents (18, if you count the cover).

Enjoy, one and all!  You can find the URL in prior messages.


Title: Re: Damn, people!
Post by: iago on April 10, 2003, 11:58:18 AM
Quote from: philreed
Don't give these away to everyone in the world. Maybe we can bundle them and sell them as PDF with all proceeds going to advertising the project and The Forge.


Sure.  I'm not trumpeting the existence of the Yahoo Group, and it's mainly there to provide easy hosting space to anyone who participates in this project (it's got a quota of about 20 MB, and two of us have used 2.5 of that; unless I'm mis-estimating the number of people who will participate, we're probably fine).

And heck, if I can toss an advertisement for Fate on the last page of Pace, I'll be pretty durn happy.

Quote
I'm now going to take some time to read the two completed games.


I'm past my deadline in 2 minutes and hungry for some feedback.  Got any? :)

Come to think, I'm hungry for lunch too.


Title: 24 Hour Game
Post by: Jonathan Walton on April 10, 2003, 12:09:20 PM
Whew, crunch time for me!  6 hours left!

I've got about 12-13 pages now, with definite plans for at least 7 more, to cover the basics of background and color.  Whether I can make 24 is yet to be seen, but I'm aiming for it.  I'll probably have to make a choice between more content or proper formatting and layout.  The bulk of the mechanics are done, though, so now I can focus on describing what the game is about and doing some cool art!

Shreyas, I don't think this necessarily has to be an event with everything happening at the same time.  Maybe we can set up a webpage (I'd volunteer some space) where we can keep of record of when and where individual games were created, and where you can get or buy them.  Along with "everyone should create a Heartbreaker" maybe we need the mantra "everyone should create a 24-Hour Game."  I think you should feel free to do it whenever you can.  If I hadn't started on mine yesterday, there's no way I would have found time for it before exams.

Back to typing!


Title: Failure and schedules . . .
Post by: philreed on April 10, 2003, 05:08:38 PM
If you have to fail, I'd rather it be a failure that ends with an RPG. I'd say go for it and just note in the final version you post that it's a failure and why.

As to deadlines and schedules. Just create one of these whenever you feel like it. I'm honestly amazed at the response and am still reading the two currently available (I've read through once but want to make another pass before I make comments).

I'm feeling like a slacker for not having one done already.


Title: 24 Hour Game
Post by: Jonathan Walton on April 10, 2003, 08:07:25 PM
Ahhhh!

I've had this &^#@&# game done since 10pm (when it was due), but I can't seem to convert it to PDF, no matter what method I use.  pdf995 decided to render my Word file without spaces between the words.  So I head to the lab to use InDesign, and it's locked.  Right now, I'm trying to use Adobe's online service to convert the Word files and then I'll try to pdf995 them all together into one file.  You'll have it tonight!  This I promise.


Title: 24 Hour Game
Post by: Jonathan Walton on April 10, 2003, 11:19:29 PM
Here ya go!  24 hours to write the damn thing and then it takes me 5 to get it in a readable PDF format.  Next time, I'll plan to finish earlier and format it in the lab on InDesign.  Sheesh.

http://1001.indie-rpgs.com/Vespertine-24.pdf

Over 2000K because of all the artwork I included in it, so it'll take a few minutes to download, even on a fairly fast connection.

Hope ya like it.


Title: 24 Hour Game
Post by: philreed on April 11, 2003, 04:17:28 AM
Quote from: Jonathan Walton
Here ya go!  24 hours to write the damn thing and then it takes me 5 to get it in a readable PDF format.  Next time, I'll plan to finish earlier and format it in the lab on InDesign.  Sheesh.


All I can see are pics. No text. Looks like a PDF problem. I'm using Acrobat Reader 5 to look at it.


Title: 24 Hour Game
Post by: ethan_greer on April 11, 2003, 05:54:54 AM
I am totally going to do one of these as soon as I'm done working on Thugs and Thieves.

Phil, I think this is a cool thing.  I especially like the idea of packaging them together for sale with proceeds going to the Forge.  Are you serious about that?  If so, give me (and others here) a time frame for when you want submissions for such a publication.  If need be, I can put TandT on hold for this.

Rock on!


Title: Yes, I'm serious.
Post by: philreed on April 11, 2003, 06:13:18 AM
Quote from: ethan_greer
Phil, I think this is a cool thing.  I especially like the idea of packaging them together for sale with proceeds going to the Forge.  Are you serious about that?  If so, give me (and others here) a time frame for when you want submissions for such a publication.  If need be, I can put TandT on hold for this.

Rock on!


Very serious about that. I think the income from such a project could go toward co-op ads in some publications. Advertising geared toward directing people to The Forge where they'll learn all about a ton of different games that they otherwise would have probably never heard of.


Title: My stupid head . . .
Post by: philreed on April 11, 2003, 06:46:32 AM
Why don't we just collect them in groups of five? As five are finished we'll collect them and sell them.

No deadlines or anything. Just create a 24 hour game when (and if) you feel like it. If you don't want to donate it to the project you don't have to (but at least tell us about what you've done . . . please).


Title: 24 Hour Game
Post by: Paul Czege on April 11, 2003, 07:13:01 AM
Hey Phil,

I think the 24 Hour Game concept is great. And I'd be all over it if I weren't the time of the year when if I want to be selling My Life with Master at the GenCon booth I need to be writing it.

But this...

Don't give these away to everyone in the world. Maybe we can bundle them and sell them as PDF with all proceeds going to advertising the project and The Forge. The final PDF collection would include advertising for each contributor and all of the games (even partials) created during the established timeframe.

...I'm not so sure about. I'm not sure I like the message:

"These are a bunch of games we wrote in 24 hours. We never playtested them. Some of them are incomplete. This is who we are and what we do at The Forge."

It seems to me the purpose of Scott McCloud's 24 Hour Dare is to get folks out of stasis mode and into a mindset where the objective isn't creative excellence, but effort and completion. It's the artist's anticipation of his work being subjected to scrutiny and evaluation for its creative excellence that fosters the paralysis mode in the first place. Aren't plans to put the games that result from this effort out in front of The Forge as a promotion of its excellence actually working against the purpose?

Paul


Title: 24 Hour Game
Post by: philreed on April 11, 2003, 07:24:06 AM
I see at more as: "Here's some experimentation in RPG design that's not usually seen. Your chance to see the earliest stage of five different games for $5."

I see a lot of value in that and would buy such a thing. But maybe I'm weird.


Title: 24 Hour Game
Post by: Jonathan Walton on April 11, 2003, 07:26:38 AM
Quote from: philreed
All I can see are pics. No text. Looks like a PDF problem. I'm using Acrobat Reader 5 to look at it.


Hmm, it's opening just fine for me.  I'm also using 5.0, and Jason Blair (over on the Key 20 Forum) said he's been able to read it.  What kind of machine are you on, Phil?  If you're using a Mac, there might be a problem with the way I (or the Adobe Online PDF service) embedded the fonts.

Is anyone else having this problem?  If I could get some idea as to who can read it and what machine they're using, I might be able to figure out what was wrong.

In any case, I'm planning to edit and revise the document as soon as I can find some free time (giving it a proper layout in InDesign and fixing some nasty typos that I just noticed).

I just hope other people aren't having Phil's problem...


Title: 24 Hour Game
Post by: philreed on April 11, 2003, 07:30:08 AM
I'm using a Mac.

I'll try opening it in Acrobat 4.


Title: Re: Yes, I'm serious.
Post by: iago on April 11, 2003, 07:30:36 AM
Quote from: philreed
Quote from: ethan_greer
Phil, I think this is a cool thing.  I especially like the idea of packaging them together for sale with proceeds going to the Forge.  Are you serious about that?  If so, give me (and others here) a time frame for when you want submissions for such a publication.  If need be, I can put TandT on hold for this.

Rock on!


Very serious about that. I think the income from such a project could go toward co-op ads in some publications. Advertising geared toward directing people to The Forge where they'll learn all about a ton of different games that they otherwise would have probably never heard of.


As far as timeframe goes, I am tempted to say that it should happen sometime in April; this keeps it very much in the spirit of this being "24 Hour RPG Month", and also keeps things from, well, dragging.


Title: 24 Hour Game
Post by: iago on April 11, 2003, 07:34:17 AM
Quote from: philreed
I'm using a Mac.

I'll try opening it in Acrobat 4.


I'm using a Mac.  MacOS X.  Acrobat Reader 5.0.  Opens fine.


Title: 24 Hour Game
Post by: philreed on April 11, 2003, 07:42:33 AM
It opened in Acrobat 4. Won't open in Acrobat Reader 5. Max OS 9.2.


Title: 24 Hour Game
Post by: Paul Czege on April 11, 2003, 07:42:55 AM
Hey Jonathan,

Is anyone else having this problem? If I could get some idea as to who can read it and what machine they're using, I might be able to figure out what was wrong.

I get the same thing Phil does, a nineteen page document with images on various pages and no visible text. I'm on a Windows 2000 machine, with Acrobat Reader 5.0. I tried both downloading the document and opening in Acrobat Reader, and launching it into the Internet Explorer Acrobat Reader plug-in, and got the same result.

Paul


Title: 24 Hour Game
Post by: Jonathan Walton on April 11, 2003, 08:06:27 AM
Bizarre, so why can Fred get it, but not Phil?  And why can I get it (Windows ME + AR 5.0), but not Paul?  We seem to be running pretty similar setups.  Maybe it's because I set the Adobe Online thing to process the Word files into "eBook" format instead of "web."

In any case, if I can find time this weekend to run everything through InDesign I will.  Sorry about all the trouble.


Title: 24 Hour Game
Post by: iago on April 11, 2003, 08:31:46 AM
Quote from: Jonathan Walton
Bizarre, so why can Fred get it, but not Phil?  And why can I get it (Windows ME + AR 5.0), but not Paul?  We seem to be running pretty similar setups.  Maybe it's because I set the Adobe Online thing to process the Word files into "eBook" format instead of "web."


Difficult to say.  Phil's on a different version of MacOS, so even if we're both running Reader 5.0, it's effectively a different piece of software.  Haven't used Adobe Online stuff, ever.  If critical, I do have a version of Word for the mac and can "print" to PDF format if you want me to do a quickie like that.

I also am running with about a gig of RAM, so I don't know if the image-heaviness is having any sort of impact on things.  I doubt that, though.

Instead, I'd be more willing to believe there's some sort of odd conflict with installed fonts, where acrobat might believe that the font used in the file is installed locally, but it isn't, and it thus comes out blank.  Weird thought, I admit, but I've seen weirder.


Title: 24 Hour Game
Post by: hardcoremoose on April 11, 2003, 10:00:48 AM
It just so happens I have a few hours to kill today, so we'll give this a shot.  I started about 12:30 this afternoon, but that's ultimately irrelevant, since I have to be work at 10 AM tomorrow.  We'll see how much I can get done before then.

In case anyone's curious, this potential game could be seen as a spiritual companion to my own Charnel Gods.  A little role reversal, so to speak.

Take care,
Scott


Title: 24 Hour Game
Post by: Trevis Martin on April 11, 2003, 10:04:10 AM
I just opened it in Acrobat 5.1 on Mac OS 9.2.2,  no poblems.

--Trevis--


Title: 24 Hour Game
Post by: SrGrvsaLot on April 11, 2003, 11:00:21 AM
This strikes me as an incredibly good idea, and some serious fun to boot. Consider me started as of the time of this post.


Title: 24 Hour Game
Post by: philreed on April 11, 2003, 01:11:53 PM
Good luck with it!

I'm trying to clear Sunday so I can do mine then. In the middle of moving so I may need to work on the new house Sunday but I'm hoping I can do this instead.


Title: 24 Hour Game
Post by: Jonathan Walton on April 11, 2003, 01:39:15 PM
Okay, did a simple layout in InDesign but didn't change the content at all (wanting to show you guys the original 24-hour version before I revise it).  There's a thread going on over in the Key 20 Forum about trying to improve the stream-of-consciousness version from yesterday.

Originally, I was getting a blank pdf on this machine too (one of the lab PCs running Win 2000), but now everything looks great, so hopefully I've fixed that problem.  The new file is up here:

http://www.godmachine.org/Vespertine-v24.pdf

Let me know if you still have issues.


Title: 24 Hour Game
Post by: anonymouse on April 11, 2003, 06:27:18 PM
Having partaken of both the Sacred Pizza and the Sacred Coke (because the Sacred Jolt was done away with years ago when they changed the recepie into dirt or something), I am now prepared to..

..stare at the screen for twenty-three hours before exploding into a panic attack. Hopefully I'll be able to come up with a new idea and do something with it before that. ;)

The toughest part has been not thinking about this over the past few days. Every time I did, I had another idea for one; another idea I couldn't use when it finally came time to give it a shot. =/

Here's hopin'! I've got a Paladin game in 4.5 hours or so; maybe I'll take a break after that and see if I have any updates to post.

The super-fun part is that I've never done any wholesale design stuff before; the furthest I ever got was messing around making a cover in MS Paint when I was.. oh.. 12 or so. Never really got anywhere past that..


Title: 24 Hour Game
Post by: talysman on April 11, 2003, 08:43:44 PM
Quote from: anonymouse
The toughest part has been not thinking about this over the past few days. Every time I did, I had another idea for one; another idea I couldn't use when it finally came time to give it a shot. =/


I hear ya there! =)

at least I have a TFT-like game mechanic that I developed for three of those premature game ideas that I can steal for my "24 hour rpg" when the idea comes.

what I've decided to do is: wait until I have my inspiration, post my start time, then begin work. no point in starting my stopwatch and sittin' for 20 hours... I also want to check various regularly-updated news sources for seed concepts -- sort of an extra freshness challenge. but that's tricky, because I have to ignore "regular" news, since it's mostly about the war. not something I'm interested in doing. hmmm... exec fired over hitler comments, hype over the sandler/nicholas movie and the harry potter dvd release... no ideas forming just yet.

I'll think about it some more.


Title: 24 Hour Game
Post by: clehrich on April 11, 2003, 09:49:23 PM
You know, it's weird, but I find this whole discussion very inspiring.  I feel this nasty urge to drop everything and write an RPG at 100mph.  Unfortunately, I think if I did that it would almost certainly have bad effects on the rest of my life for a disturbing long time to come.

Since everyone seems to be doing this in spurts, let me make a suggestion to Phil.  How about you declare "ladies, gentlemen, and others -- start your engines!" and then give a definite finish-date, say about 1 month later.  You're on your honor to do the thing in 24 hours, follow all the rules, and whatnot, and then you submit or post or whatever to some central point.  

The running thread would be, as it has already become, essentially a spiralling blog, along with tech comments about games that don't seem to open or whatever, and of course links and remarks about the games that are out.

At the end of the period, it's open season to actually tear apart -- er, playtest -- the games, critique, comment, and so forth.  Until the writing month is done, no comments except (1) technical, and (2) from the author (as blog).

The point is that this would allow people to set up 24-hour periods that work for them, and also keep the thread clear of devastating critique while people are still writing.

Just a thought for next run.


Title: 24 Hour Game
Post by: James V. West on April 12, 2003, 03:23:31 AM
I agree with Clerich that we should avoid serious critiques of games that are still being created (if that's what you meant, Clerich).

Also, I agree with Paul that selling these as a package might not be the best idea. Perhaps doing that later would work better. Why not go with the package idea but make a freebie and have everyone promote it via their websites, email lists, newsgroups, or whatever. The package would contain ample information about The Forge, how to get here, what it's about, and what the 24 Hour RPG is all about. Seems like that would keep in the spirit of the 24 Hour Challenge and avoid the pressures Paul mentioned.

I'd like to hear more thoughts on this.


Title: Freebie may be a good idea.
Post by: philreed on April 12, 2003, 04:08:45 AM
The freebie package would probably work fairly well. I'm still interested in hearing other ideas.

Looks like I'll be starting mine tonight when I get home from a con. I'll post here when I start.


Title: 24 Hour Game
Post by: SrGrvsaLot on April 12, 2003, 10:34:09 AM
Well, Ive finished mine, with time to spare it looks like. You can download Mutant Space Cowboys at http://www.mesastate.edu/~jfrazer/cowboy.pdf

Good Luck Everyone!


Title: 24 Hour Game
Post by: Jeph on April 12, 2003, 01:05:39 PM
SrGrvsaLot, all I see are punctuation marks and tables. I'm using Preview on a Mac OSX.

Oh, and I cast my vote against charging for these games. I'm not sure when I'll find time to make mine, as . . . wait . . . I'm starting now. That's right, I'm starting this instant. Start time, 5:15 EDT (by my clock). See ya in 24 hours!


Title: 24 Hour Game
Post by: talysman on April 12, 2003, 02:52:15 PM
ok, I'm throwing my hat in the ring.

I don't actually have a new idea just yet, but I started doing some fantasy landscape art, and I guess that counts, so I'll get to work.

I was digging around in my old posts and found this game mechanic (http://www.indie-rpgs.com/viewtopic.php?p=35323#35323) that I more or less forgot about. I'll make some changes to that and put together a little game.


Title: 24 Hour Game
Post by: philreed on April 12, 2003, 02:54:27 PM
Quote from: Jeph
SrGrvsaLot, all I see are punctuation marks and tables. I'm using Preview on a Mac OSX.

Oh, and I cast my vote against charging for these games. I'm not sure when I'll find time to make mine, as . . . wait . . . I'm starting now. That's right, I'm starting this instant. Start time, 5:15 EDT (by my clock). See ya in 24 hours!


Works fine for me. Mac OS 9.2, Acrobat Reader 5.0.

Need to eat, relax with the wife, then get started. I'll post my time when I turn the light from red to green.


Title: 24 Hour Game
Post by: anonymouse on April 12, 2003, 02:58:39 PM
Well, I'm throwing in the towel, at least for now. Pretty tired, aggravated, discouraged, et cetera.. I thought I'd try something a little funky; a game written in 24 hours that's supposed to only be played in 24 hours (taking a longer page from Insects).

Maybe I'll come back to it, or try another idea in a couple of weeks when I've had time to unwind. The RTF document, in case anyone wants to look at it anyway, is at: http://216.99.207.42/dragon.rtf


Title: 24 Hour Game
Post by: hardcoremoose on April 12, 2003, 03:02:49 PM
Hey guys,

Time's come and gone on my project, and as predicted, work interfered with its completion.  The good news is that I finally got to work on something I really liked but had basically written off.  I'll continue to work on it now until its presentable, while preserving the 14 hour mark (which is how far I got before I let the real world intrude upon me) as a record of the endeavour.  If you want to see it, I'll see about making it available later, but for now I too have to eat dinner with the wife.

- Scott


Title: 24 Hour Game
Post by: SrGrvsaLot on April 12, 2003, 03:04:57 PM
Quote from: Jeph
SrGrvsaLot, all I see are punctuation marks and tables. I'm using Preview on a Mac OSX.


That's funny, becuase it looks fine in Acrobat Reader 5.0. Seeing as how this is the first PDF I've ever made, I'm not sure how to fix your problem. If anyone has any advice on what I should do, I'd be happy to hear it. In the mean time, I've made an HTML version.  http://www.mesastate.edu/~jfrazer/cowboy.htm


Title: 24 Hour Game
Post by: Jeph on April 12, 2003, 03:46:46 PM
Well, I've got the title page, half the intro, and 99.9% of the Characters section, so far. The game's turning out to be a sort of X-Men type Supers game, with a strong emphasis on doing cool stuff and the conflict of power vs. self control. More updates later!


Title: 9 PM Go!
Post by: philreed on April 12, 2003, 06:12:51 PM
My game is due 9 PM (central time) Sunday, April 13th.


Title: 24 Hour Game
Post by: MPOSullivan on April 12, 2003, 10:31:44 PM
alright, i've got a newer version of Criminal Element ready.  the words haven't changed much at all, just a brad new layout that i think looks nice and classy.  should i post it on the 24HourRPG group since it's related or should i post it elsewhere?

oh, also created a 24hourRPG logo if anyone wants to use it.  i'll put that up in the group for all to use.  that way, if these do get sold to people for forge-funding, they'll have that uniform logo thingie.

-michael


Title: 24 Hour Game
Post by: iago on April 13, 2003, 01:25:27 AM
Quote from: Zathreyel
alright, i've got a newer version of Criminal Element ready.  the words haven't changed much at all, just a brad new layout that i think looks nice and classy.  should i post it on the 24HourRPG group since it's related or should i post it elsewhere?

oh, also created a 24hourRPG logo if anyone wants to use it.  i'll put that up in the group for all to use.  that way, if these do get sold to people for forge-funding, they'll have that uniform logo thingie.

-michael


D'you have that logo in a resizable vector format, like EPS, or is that a raster?


Title: Status Report
Post by: philreed on April 13, 2003, 03:06:29 AM
Work continues. I first created all of the layout and am now writing my game around the layout and artwork. I tend to do this when I'm rushed since I can often gain inspiration from the layout/art and while working on the easy stuff I can keep my mind thinking on what the hell my game is going to be.


Title: 24 Hour Game
Post by: Jeph on April 13, 2003, 06:52:57 AM
Ick. Clip art doesn't like me. I've taken to finding photographs with a Google picture search, then tinting and darkening them until they have the appearance that I want. The effect is neat.

Brief system summary: You've got your Action Value. You've got your Difficulty. If your AV is higher than the Dif, you automatically succeed. If Dif is equal/greater than AV, roll a number of dice equal to (Dif minus AV) plus one. If all dice are even, you succeed.

Damn, I've only got 6hr 15min left. Bye!


Title: 24 Hour Game
Post by: philreed on April 13, 2003, 08:51:51 AM
About 9 hours left and I only have ten pages. And my brain hurts.

I'm even more impressed with the created works now that I'm in the middle of attempting this myself.


Title: 24 Hour Game
Post by: iago on April 13, 2003, 09:31:34 AM
Quote from: Jeph
Ick. Clip art doesn't like me. I've taken to finding photographs with a Google picture search, then tinting and darkening them until they have the appearance that I want. The effect is neat.


All the more reason to avoid making these games for-pay, since the legalities of such art are ... well. :)

Any port in a storm, during the 24 hours, though!


Title: 24 Hour Game
Post by: talysman on April 13, 2003, 10:13:56 AM
ok, done.

well, not really... not as much as I planned to do, but 17 pages, at least... and I think the game is more or less playable. I'm just not happy with the results. the setting needs more background material, even though the players are supposed to create a lot of the setting through play.

the game is called The Troubadours of Verticaille (http://www.globalsurrealism.com/rpg/verticaille.pdf). it's less than 200K; if I had known that would happen, I would have figured out how to use the full-color island pictures I created for the game.

I'm basically calling it quits now with four hours left to go because, despite taking a four-hour sleep break, I am completely exhausted and finding it hard to concentrate. plus, I'm hungry. sorry, I'm just too old and cranky for this kind of "pushing to the limits".


Title: 24 Hour Game
Post by: iago on April 13, 2003, 10:33:26 AM
Quote from: talysman
Sorry, I'm just too old and cranky for this kind of "pushing to the limits".


You're selling yourself short.  Good job.  And for what it's worth, with more pics added in, you'd probably bulk out to 24 pages nice and quick.  I'll refrain from deeper commentary on the work, though, 'cause I'm still fuzzy on when and where the appropriate time & place is for that.


Title: 24 Hour Game
Post by: iago on April 13, 2003, 10:35:04 AM
Quote from: Zathreyel
alright, i've got a newer version of Criminal Element ready.  the words haven't changed much at all, just a brad new layout that i think looks nice and classy.  should i post it on the 24HourRPG group since it's related or should i post it elsewhere?


I failed to respond to this part.  I'd say go ahead and post it, *but*, since it's a revised (post-24 hour) work, it should be posted under a different filename, so people can see both the "pure" 24-hour work and the later refined 24-plus work.


Title: 24 Hour Game
Post by: Jeph on April 13, 2003, 11:48:51 AM
Finished, with one hour and 22 minutes left. I think I've got time to make a quick character sheet, maybe write some design notes. It's sixteen pages (including the cover), with four sections: Introduction, Characters, Rules, and Powers. I'm pretty happy with it.

Okay, to the character sheet, and then I'll post it!


Title: 24 Hour Game
Post by: Mark Johnson on April 13, 2003, 12:01:34 PM
I would like to see some Actual Play reviews of these 24 hour games soon.  Any takers?


Title: 24 Hour Game
Post by: SrGrvsaLot on April 13, 2003, 12:07:02 PM
I've got a friend who won't be able to make it our regular session next week, so I might be able to do a review of one or two of the completed games on Friday or Saturday.

By the way: I've really liked all the games I've seen so far, but my enjoyment of "Vespertine" is hampered by the fact that I'd never heard of "Little Fears" unitl I read that game. Anyone know where I can pick it up?


Title: 24 Hour Game
Post by: Jeph on April 13, 2003, 01:02:48 PM
Sunrise has been posted, 8 minutes before the deadline. =) I didn't have time to make a character sheet, as the application "unexpectedly quit" and I lost about 5 minutes worth of text.

/smashes head against computer desk several times

Okay, better now. Anyway, I did include an advertisement page in the back, with the 24 hour game logo, and the names and authors of the other four games that have been posted so far. (I tried getting pictures of the covers of the other games in, but shrinking them messed up the titling and stuff. Ah well, such is life.)

-Jeff S.


Title: 24 Hour Game
Post by: iago on April 13, 2003, 01:03:29 PM
Quote from: Mark Johnson
I would like to see some Actual Play reviews of these 24 hour games soon.  Any takers?


This raises the overall question of how to move from the 'development' thread to the 'take a look and offer feedback'.  Is now the time to start?  I'd be willing to offer Pace up to the wolves by starting a thread about it in this forum, at the least.  Haven't the locally available time to really playtest the thing, however, so Actual Play may have to wait.


Title: 24 Hour Game
Post by: Jeph on April 13, 2003, 01:07:03 PM
Talysman, I just downloaded The Troubadours of Verticaille, and (like with Mutant Space Cowboys) I can see nothing but the punctuation, tables, and graphics. Maybe it's that I'm using Preview, not Acrobat?


Title: 24 Hour Game
Post by: iago on April 13, 2003, 01:13:32 PM
Quote from: Jeph
Talysman, I just downloaded The Troubadours of Verticaille, and (like with Mutant Space Cowboys) I can see nothing but the punctuation, tables, and graphics. Maybe it's that I'm using Preview, not Acrobat?
Could be.  I haven't tried opening those with Preview.  Giving it a try...  Nope, I'm opening them fine with Preview as well.

My original suspicions still stand -- some sort of font conflict, or other bit of installed software, or some kind of memory issue (in descending order of strength of suspicion).  

I would recommend you try downloading and installing Acrobat Reader 5 -- it's a pretty harmless piece of software on my Mac, at least (500 MHz single proc G4 w/ 1 GB RAM), and has not had a problem viewing any of the "problem files" we've had to date.

Edit: My Mac's running Jaguar, 10.2.5, as well, in case that's a significant difference.  Preview's definitely been updated between 10.1 and 10.2...


Title: 24 Hour Game
Post by: philreed on April 13, 2003, 01:18:57 PM
Can someone compile a list of the links and post it in one message?

I have less than 5 hours to go and 15 pages done. I don't think I'll make it to 24 but I just might be able to finish the game. Even if I don't finish I'll post what I do have at the 24 hour mark.


Title: 24 Hour Game
Post by: Jeph on April 13, 2003, 01:29:27 PM
I'm running on OSX 1.1, so that could be it. But my comp definitely has problems with certain fonts (won't print or make a .pdf of documents with a bunch of neat stuff, I've never taken the time to figure out how to fix it), so that also could be it. I've got Acrobat (I just don't use it since Preview looks cleaner), so I'll try opening the files in that . . .

If the writers of the games would give permission, someone could post them to the Yahoo group so that we've got them all in one place.


Title: 24 Hour Game
Post by: iago on April 13, 2003, 02:17:41 PM
Quote from: Jeph
If the writers of the games would give permission, someone could post them to the Yahoo group so that we've got them all in one place.


The Yahoo group also has a 'links' area, URLs could be posted there.


Title: 24 Hour Game
Post by: Simon W on April 13, 2003, 03:09:29 PM
Ok I've done mine.
I wanted to put an opening scenario in, more weapons and a bit of extra info, but I'm done in now, even though I finished a copule of hours early.

Its called 1940 - England Invaded and its a traditional style of game of the German occupation of England in WW2, inspired by what is going on in Iraq, The Eagle has Landed, The old RPG The Price of Freedom (West End Games) and to a degree Dad's Army (an ancient English TV sit-com for anyone out there who isn't British!) - although it is not realy designed to be humerous - more a game of deception, dilemmas and some gung - ho action.

Here it is

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/24HourGames/files/


Title: 24 Hour Game
Post by: iago on April 13, 2003, 04:06:57 PM
Quote from: philreed
Can someone compile a list of the links and post it in one message?


I've located 8 24-hour RPGs done or abandoned so far, and linked to them from here: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/24HourGames/links/ -- I will happily continue to update this area if desired, but note that others who become members of the group should be able to add their own links as well.  

If you post a file to the file area of the group, please try to put a link in this area, too -- the links area can be considered the central link repository for this project (all willing).


Title: Uploaded
Post by: philreed on April 13, 2003, 04:43:31 PM
http://www.philipjreed.com/images/vsmonsterslow.pdf

vs. Monsters is a 20 page PDF. I consider this is a failed attempt but I think the work I did wasn't a total waste. Maybe I'll come back to this in the future and attempt to complete it (probably expanded it a bit) but for now I'm finished with it.

The file is 1 meg. I had created a print version first but it turned out to be 5 meg.


Title: Re: Uploaded
Post by: iago on April 13, 2003, 05:55:35 PM
Quote from: philreed
http://www.philipjreed.com/images/vsmonsterslow.pdf

vs. Monsters is a 20 page PDF. I consider this is a failed attempt but I think the work I did wasn't a total waste. Maybe I'll come back to this in the future and attempt to complete it (probably expanded it a bit) but for now I'm finished with it.


I think you were a little ambitious with the notion of including an adventure at the end of the thing.  But it's a very attractive failure, if you're going to call it that!

I've added it to the links page.


Title: 24 Hour Game
Post by: MPOSullivan on April 13, 2003, 09:17:03 PM
wow, things are moving along so damned beautifuly it hurts.  this is some outpour of work here, eh?

well, anyway, to answer the question from earlier, i created the 24HourRPG logo on photoshop and can put it into pretty much whatever format you need plus, if people want color tweeks to it or whatever i would be more than happy to do that.

i've posted the newest version of Criminal Element on the yahoogroup as well, but have marked it as the updated, more complete version.  i have a hard time calling the game a failure becuase it is playable in the 24 hour edition.  it needs a spelllcheck and i will be taking more photos for the book over the next couple of days but the more i work on it the more i actually want to go forward with this as something bigger, y'know?  i really want to write a suplement setting the game in the mod era in london.  a better version of the game will find its way to my new website www.fullmotor.com soon enough.  the website isn't running yet but will be soon.  keep an eye out!

i would also be completely willing to both playtest others games and have mine played by anyone and critiqued.  

this remeinds me: anyone in the philadelphia area?  maybe we can get together and try some of these bad boys out as a group.  could be fun!

laters!

  -michael


Title: 24 Hour Game
Post by: talysman on April 13, 2003, 09:43:02 PM
Quote from: Jeph
Talysman, I just downloaded The Troubadours of Verticaille, and (like with Mutant Space Cowboys) I can see nothing but the punctuation, tables, and graphics. Maybe it's that I'm using Preview, not Acrobat?


I think Iago's suspicions have something to do with this... I dunno what the other people are using, but I figured most of the pdfs were made with InDesign, Adobe's online pdf maker, or the Mac pdf utility. I'm probably the only person using ghostscript to make pdfs, so it seems odd that you'd experience the same problem with multiple pdfs made with different applications.

for what it's worth, I can open the pdf in Acrobat 4/WinMe and Acrobat 5/WinXP.

Quote from: iago
Quote from: talysman
Sorry, I'm just too old and cranky for this kind of "pushing to the limits".


You're selling yourself short.  Good job.  And for what it's worth, with more pics added in, you'd probably bulk out to 24 pages nice and quick.  I'll refrain from deeper commentary on the work, though, 'cause I'm still fuzzy on when and where the appropriate time & place is for that.


I actually had more pics and could have added a cheatsheet, charsheet, and table of contents, if I had pushed myself past the point of mental fuzziness and used my last three hours. but it wasn't really the length/look I was talking about. I was wiped out physically (still am) from not getting enough sleep. it b0rk my brane.

anyways, the main problem with the game, from my viewpoint, is that I just didn't write enough background for it.


Title: 24 Hour Game
Post by: MPOSullivan on April 13, 2003, 09:49:11 PM
okay, i lied, the PDf is too big to put on the yahoo group.  it'll be on fullmotor.com in like a week probably.  still have to get the site up and running.  if anyone wants a copy, email me at Zathreyel@aol.com and i will be more than happy to emial it back to you.  it's really pretty with nice layouts and photos and stuff!  and a character sheet!

laters!

    -m


Title: 24 Hour Game
Post by: Jonathan Walton on April 14, 2003, 04:58:14 AM
Quote from: talysman
I'm probably the only person using ghostscript to make pdfs, so it seems odd that you'd experience the same problem with multiple pdfs made with different applications.


Nope.  I used pdf995 to compile my original file (and that uses something like ghostscript), which is probably why it was causing all sorts of problems for people trying to open it.

In the playtesting category, I'm going to try to make it to the upcoming RPGnet Gameday in Cleveland and maybe even playtest Vespertine with Jason Blair, who's planning to be there.  What fun!


Title: 24 Hour Game
Post by: philreed on April 14, 2003, 05:14:19 AM
As I read over posts from last night I'm seeing just how messed up I was. And a glance at the PDF this morning didn't bother me too much. I just wish I could have finished it in the time allowed. The sad thing is it would probably only take two hours to go through and make it something I could be proud of. I guess it's when that two hours comes right after 22 others that the time seems like a major challenge.

Wow. Maybe I'm still tired. I'm rambling again.


Title: 24 Hour Game
Post by: Andy Kitkowski on April 14, 2003, 09:02:15 AM
Sorry I'm jumping in late, I had very little to contriute.

I just downloaded the final PDF.

Creating the game, I figured, would take all the time available. I imagined little more than long strings of text. The layout of this document is amazing. Truly amazing, given the amount of time you spent on it.

JESUS H. CHRIST, Philip, you really EDIT: NEVER cease to amaze me.


Title: 24 Hour Game
Post by: iago on April 14, 2003, 09:17:11 AM
Quote from: Zathreyel
well, anyway, to answer the question from earlier, i created the 24HourRPG logo on photoshop and can put it into pretty much whatever format you need plus, if people want color tweeks to it or whatever i would be more than happy to do that.


Aha.  Nah, that means it's a rastered image, rather than a vector-based one (I'm talking like, Illustrator style).  I wanted to be able to resize the image without loss of quality.  Is cool as is, though.


Title: 24 Hour Game
Post by: philreed on April 14, 2003, 09:39:54 AM
Quote from: Andy Kitkowski
Sorry I'm jumping in late, I had very little to contriute.

I just downloaded the final PDF.

Creating the game, I figured, would take all the time available. I imagined little more than long strings of text. The layout of this document is amazing. Truly amazing, given the amount of time you spent on it.

JESUS H. CHRIST, Philip, you really cease to amaze me.


I'll assume you meant "never" in place of "really." If I'm wrong please don't tell me since it would hurt my feelings.

The layout and art was actually the very first thing I worked on. I then wrote around the pages I designed and made minor tweaks to the page design as needed. I find this really works for me since it lets me work on something I need (but don' need my brain for . . . that was all done on autopilot) and think about what I'll be writing while I work in Photoshop. I highly recommend working this way.

I'm anxious to read over stuff tonight but it may not happen since my day is really going to hell. I pray for the day I can spend at home just working on my own projects.


Title: 24 Hour Game
Post by: iago on April 14, 2003, 09:43:22 AM
So, Phil, is the general vibe to start a new topic for critiquing the games that have been done, and keep this as a pure development thread?


Title: 24 Hour Game
Post by: philreed on April 14, 2003, 09:56:04 AM
Quote from: iago
So, Phil, is the general vibe to start a new topic for critiquing the games that have been done, and keep this as a pure development thread?


Sounds like a good idea to me. I'll try and post one "critique" a day starting tomorrow. Someone else feel free to start the new thread.


Title: 24 Hour Game
Post by: Andy Kitkowski on April 14, 2003, 10:10:31 AM
Quote from: philreed
I'll assume you meant "never" in place of "really." If I'm wrong please don't tell me since it would hurt my feelings.


Oops- Typo! Fixed now... :)

Yeah, I guess I should save my critique (which amounts to little more than "F*in' Awesome Job, guys!" until I get a chance to really read it) for another thread...


Title: 24 Hour Game
Post by: iago on April 14, 2003, 10:16:36 AM
Critiquing thread has been started:

http://www.indie-rpgs.com/viewtopic.php?t=6045


Title: Tick-tick-tick
Post by: bluegargantua on April 18, 2003, 02:57:04 PM
I'm gonna take a crack at this.  We'll see what pops out 24 hours from now.  I'll tell you right now, it won't be nearly as pretty as vs. Monsters.  Gol darn bar-raisers....

:)
Tom


Title: Re: Tick-tick-tick
Post by: philreed on April 18, 2003, 03:22:33 PM
Quote from: bluegargantua
I'm gonna take a crack at this.  We'll see what pops out 24 hours from now.  I'll tell you right now, it won't be nearly as pretty as vs. Monsters.  Gol darn bar-raisers....


Good luck!


Title: 24 Hour Game
Post by: Ryan Chaddock on April 18, 2003, 09:54:19 PM
Hmm.  I think I'd like to try it tonight, but I don't know.  I've never done any layout before and I've never worked with acrobat format.  Plus my job could get in the way in terms of needing sleep.  Lemme see if I can get some Acrobat stuff up and running.

This stuff is really inspiring.  I'm getting all kinds of ideas just reading everyone else's posts and games.  Hopefully I wont come up with a good one BEFORE I start.


Title: 24 Hour Game
Post by: Ron Edwards on April 19, 2003, 06:10:21 AM
Hello,

The last few posts are pretty empty, folks. Please consider this (wonderful) thread closed, and head for the threads about the games.

If you're doing your own 24-hour RPG, good for you and post about it after you have something to show. Don't post about "I'ma gonna do it!" please.

Best,
Ron