Well - I've been playing around with some new code, and am thinking about revising The Forge again. The author-driven game library hasn't really worked out because of bad code on my part and bad response on authors' part (plus, you couldn't submit someone else's game.) So, I've got some plans in the works.
I plan to keep the forums just like they are. I want to redesign the rest of the site to be one main page, though, where you can access everything. Right now, it's pretty scattered, and I'm looking more at an independent RPG portal.
Go to
http://www.indie-rpgs.com/resources/. This isn't the look we're going to have, but the framework for the new library of games, resources, and artists. Play around. Submit links, or even new categories if you think we need them. (I already have a few of you guys' links in there. Try to follow the format for games I used, with the author's name first in parentheses.)
And let me know what you think. I need as much input as possible to make this work.
[ This Message was edited by: Clinton R Nixon on 2001-10-15 14:25 ]
I've had one link so far submitted to me. I got an email this morning asking me if I had missed one game company. This thread - a thread about completely revitalizing the Forge and making it more useful - hasn't been replied to yet.
Basically, I'm pleading - people, I work full-time. I can't input every game known to man. I want to work on my own time and give you something useful, but I need your contribution.
Go to the page and input links if they're missing. I just put in a few for some sample data.
Reply here. Tell me if you like the idea so far. (Ron - I know I should have asked you about this first, but you of all people should have interest in this. Comment, please.)
The Forge is a co-op in a sense. It's what its participants make of it. We have great forums, but I want a great site. That can't happen without all of you. Submit links, submit suggestions, submit articles, and submit reviews. The reason this place looks like Ron and Clinton's playground outside the forums is because no one else is playing.
Go!
Hey,
I probably ought to keep this private ... but here's my call, as asked.
1) I like the current format and layout. Sue me, but it's distinctive, it doesn't look anything like GO or RPG.net or anywhere else. It's usable, plain, but kinda classy in its Fourier way (on the forums). I prefer it over the provisional layout you linked to.
In general, I am terribly cautious about re-programming and revamping. 90% of the time, it's a disaster, no matter how many times the executives congratulate one another about the "wonderful new plan."
2) I agree about the under-used issue, especially the game library. I don't think a change in format would help; it's strictly a behavioral and values-based issue. I urge everyone to start frequenting the library, bugging authors you know about to submit their games to it, and actually playing the games and commenting on them. This especially goes for people who spend a lot of time goosing me about GNS.
3) I'd very much like to see an artist-driven library exactly the same as the game library. It would be really easy to have a two-pic gallery for each artist, with links back to their site. If we specified that The Forge is mainly going to yield low-funding assignments, most artists wouldn't mind (in my experience). I think that this way we would get TONS of great art for nearly all of our nifty, but wordy ideas.
4) Reviews remain problematic. I am not convinced that it is fair for me to exert an "editorial aesthetic" upon reviewers, but neither is it desirable to fling the doors wide either. Suggestions are solicited.
Best,
Ron
I just dashed off an email to Clinton to apollogise. I had just skimmed the first post above, and totally missed the fact that you could submit stuff via the page. I was the dope that suggested that he'd missed something. I gotta read more carefully.
I think what Clinton's come up with is really great, and urge everyone to support it. I'm going off now to figure out what I can add.
Mike
The technical side looks cool, so providing you make it look like the forge and feel like the forge, then I think it'll work well.
Are you going to get rid of the splash page? At the moment it just puts a big barrier between people and interacting with the site.
Just my thoughts.
Matt
I don't have a great deal to add, since I haven't a clue about good web design, but the stuff for adding links looks to be user-friendly. I haven't actually submitted any links to try it out, but I'll give it a shot a little later when I have more time.
Other than that, I'm just curious as to what it would look like. Some have complained, but I rather like the current aesthetic of The Forge.
Take care,
Scott
Sorry, Clinton, I just saw this yesterday and I've been a lazy writer of late (getting only five-to-six hours of poor sleep a night will do that to anyone).
Comments:
I never liked the current author-submitted library because it feels a little "difficult" or "unwieldy" to use and browse (though it isn't in practice, it just feels that way).
I like the new set-up, but not the layout. I think Ron's correct about the current distinctive layout of the Forge; however, perhaps an update is in order, but it needs to be distinctive.
Using descriptions of the sites in the link library is far better than the current listing of keywords, it gives me more information to go on.
Likewise, the "Newly Added" feature is wonderful since it allows me to tell what's recent instead of having to scroll through a list and try to recall which are old and which are new; however, I've never particularly liked "Top so-and-so" (because they're usually ridiculously skewed and cheated on horribly), so the "Most Popular" section doesn't really grab me.
Dump the splash-page...it serves no purpose and at the moment it is just an annoying extra click.
The search feature of the library was not easily found.
Under "Add a Link", the "Category" selection is limited and nearly worthless (at least it was when I attempted to use it); expand it to include all possible categories or dump it.
BTW, ignore the update I recently submitted; I was testing the system to see what would happen with this "everyone/anyone can update" feature.
I think that's all for the moment. More later, and I'll add a link.
Hey,
In my ignorance, I created a problem ... the "test site" Clinton put up is only to be evaluated for its utilities, not for its appearance. The look & feel of The Forge is not changing, or at least, is not currently being considered regarding a change. So any comments of mine about the look are totally out of place, and I apologize for misleading people about that.
Best,
Ron
The new utilities seem very user-friendly and the process to submit entries seem quite smooth. I like the current look of the Forge, glad that is sticking around. Its simple and distinctive, which is a relief after visting so my sites filled with unnecessary, distracting "hype".
I very much like the idea that everyone, not just game authors, can submit to the library. But perhaps there needs to be a mechanic so an author who's had his material submitted by someone else can seize ownership of the listings?
Paul
Ah...upon second look, it appears that any user can edit any listing.
Quote
On 2001-10-17 13:30, Paul Czege wrote:
I very much like the idea that everyone, not just game authors, can submit to the library. But perhaps there needs to be a mechanic so an author who's had his material submitted by someone else can seize ownership of the listings?
Paul-
Great idea. The way the new system will work (does work) is that once something is submitted, I have to give it approval. That way, links can't be changed all willy-nilly.
However, I don't receive the name of the person that submitted it. I'll have to work on a solution - for now, the best thing would be for an author to e-mail me if he wanted to "lock" one of his listings.
I've got the layout pretty much set up (it's not up, but will be soon.) The coolest new feature will be the ability to search the whole Forge. So, if you searched on Inspectres, you'd get:
- The link for Inspectres.
- Jared's homepage.
- The review of Inspectres.
- All forum posts on Inspectres.
I think that's pretty dang cool, if I say so myself.
thats very cool, and very useful.
an idea i just had that might be useful is for the memberslist screen. Would it be possible to include a field for date of last post that would sortable. That combined with sorting on number of posts would give a pretty good idea of whose currently active at a given time.
It's got thumbs up from me ...
And along with a most popular, should there be a least popular? :)
And if you're just competing with yourself, you don't have to look at it.
:)
no joking, "least popular" would be a decent category
over at
The Hitchhiker's Guide To The Galaxy the front page has lists of the 5 latest articles, 5 most overlooked articles, and 5 busiest conversations
in the context of the Forge and the resources section this would translate into 5 latest links, 5 most overlooked links and 5 busiest forum conversations
obviously 5 most popular links and 5 latest conversations would be other options, although I think the thinking is that the popular links are going to be popular anyways
Quote
that the popular links are going to be popular anyways
Unfortunately, the Forge "popularity" links suffer the same problem as most other similar "top ten" lists: I can simply go and click my own link a hundred times and BAM! I'm a "popular" link.
The only
reasonable way to construct a "top ten" is to get viewer input, not simply rate click-through. That is: "Is this link worth clicking and why?" done on a non-anonymous basis.
A little "comment" button after the little "edit" button would be my preference.
Otherwise "popularity" is simply meaningless.
_________________
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http://www.sharedvoice.org/[ This Message was edited by: greyorm on 2001-10-22 10:35 ]
Hey,
Speaking strictly as a Forge member and not as any sort of authority-dude ... I really hate "most popular" indicators in these environments. I'd prefer that people would be able to explore the site and discover what interests them. I also think that those inclined to see "where the action is" can do so simply by looking at the number of posts and the dates.
I do like the "what's new" part, especially in regard to reviews and articles.
Best,
Ron
I'm a bit concerned about anybody being able to edit any entry on the resources section. This leaves you wide open to somebody hacking the hell out of the index, and causing you lots of work.
We may not like to think that'll happen, but all it takes is one technically minded person who takes a dislike to the forge.
Matt
To all:
a) 'Most popular' isn't going to be used - it's just a feature of the software I intend to delete.
b) No hacking's going to occur. Sweet Jesus, people worry around here. I have to approve all changes manually.
Hey Clinton, what about a "viewer comments" button...I think I would really like to see that regardless. Feedback, feedback.
Course that is what the forums are supposed to be used for, but perhaps a little one for splurges? "What you'll like/what you won't from my POV" kind of comments, max 250 words or something.
Just tossing ideas out here; I know the new search feature will allow searching posts about that subject, so one could always search on a game name.
Still, just the feedback-hog in me speaking out.
Thumbs up from me.
Galfraxas
Definately an upgrade from the present library. I would however, suggest that the Forum user accounts were used in the game library also (for editing mainly). It seems both the forum and the new library are both based on third-party software (correct me if I'm wrong), and it's most probable that you don't ahave an easy way to share accounts across them.
If you also think this would be a good idea, I'd be glad to help you take a look at the code and see if there's anyway to acomplish this.
Oh, and I think you should get rid of the splash page too.. or at least leave a cookie s that returning users get hopped to the main page right away (unless you're against cookies or something).