The Forge Archives

Howdy,


Does anyone here know how hard it would be to do?

What sort of capital/licenses does one need going into such a venture?

Is it even worth considering in this economic climate?

Just curious.


Kind Regards,

Kester Pelagius

Electronic or paper? Assuming the first, it's extremely easy to get started. The problem is not that, but in getting people to write for it. This is extremely difficult. This is because most zines are fan stuff, and free, and therefore you have nothing to offer the writer. So you only get submissions out of the goodness of the fan's hearts. And that tends to be sparse depending on what the Zine is about, and how many other's beat you to the punch.

If you're talking paper, or for profit in either mode, then you have to get people to buy your product. Which is even more difficult.

What would the focus be?

Mike

Mike hits the key point here. To run a 'zine, you'd pretty much better be ready to write all of it yourself (even print 'zines suffer from this). Sure people will promise articles, or reviews, but getting them to deliver is a hassle.

-Matt

Greetings Matt,

Answering the posts in reverse order.

Quote from: MattMike hits the key point here. To run a 'zine, you'd pretty much better be ready to write all of it yourself (even print 'zines suffer from this). Sure people will promise articles, or reviews, but getting them to deliver is a hassle.

Sounds like you've had some experience in the field?

So, don't pull the punches, how bad is the reality?


Kind Regards,

Kester Pelagius

Greetings Mike,

Quote from: Mike HolmesElectronic or paper? Assuming the first, it's extremely easy to get started. The problem is not that, but in getting people to write for it. This is extremely difficult. This is because most zines are fan stuff, and free, and therefore you have nothing to offer the writer. So you only get submissions out of the goodness of the fan's hearts. And that tends to be sparse depending on what the Zine is about, and how many other's beat you to the punch.

Very true.

Of course, for a starter 'zine, getting a decent audience/subscriber base would probably also be a problem.

But what's the Zelator rule. . .  Just Do it?

Oh, no, that's Nike!  :-)

Quote from: Mike HolmesIf you're talking paper, or for profit in either mode, then you have to get people to buy your product. Which is even more difficult.

What would the focus be?

I was thinking something focusing on gaming, with an focus toward the indie spectrum gaming.  The kind of 'zine that could carry a new game (or game concept) in every issue along with articles, reviews, talk about independant game projects in both the pen-n-paper and computer arenas.  A 'zine that could highlight RPG communities, like The Forge, and offer a voice to those who would like to talk about something other than the big fishes int he commericial pond.  That sort of thing.

Yeah, I know, doesn't sound very econimically feasible even to me.  Then again I do have a subscription to UFO magazine, so us fringe types do subscribe every once in a blue alien moon.  ;-)


Kind Regards,

Kester Pelagius

Kester,

If you haven't done so already, check out The Book of Zines website:  http://www.zinebook.com/index.html">http://www.zinebook.com/index.html
It's mostly links to other sources (beware, for some lead to the land of pop-ups).  There are collections of links on Zine Help and E-Zine Help.  Many of the items are a few years old, but I expect the advice is still valid.

Julie

There's also the APA Especially if you decide to print on paper.

Hi Kester,

Most magazines proper make their money via advertising with is a function of how widespread they are.  'Zines are usually lucky to get a couple ads for $10-50 bucks, if that.  All in all, mostly they are priced just enough to fund the next issue.  

Having looked seriously into this, here are some ideas you may wish to consider-

Doing a journal, that comes out quarterly, or bi-annually, of more pages(as opposed to more often,  less pages), usually works out to better profits, plus it gives you more time to put things together.  People are willing to pay more for significantly sized digests as opposed to toss-away issues.

If you decide to do either, understand exactly what you're looking for.  For me personally, getting feedback from readers to know that they are entertained or find my publications useful would be sufficient.  For you, the requirements may be different(money, expansion, expounding/promoting games, different ideas/theories, etc.)  Figure out what you want, then figure out what supports it.

Community, community, community.  Regardless of electronic or paper, throw up a website, and a forum if you can.  'zines in all forms are held together only by community of loyal readers who identify with what you've got.

Your voice.  For small 'zines, be personal. Don't neuter out your personality as many do for large magazines.  People are paying for something they can't get elsewhere, and there's only one you.  Make use of it.

If you go with paper, depending on what you're trying to print on, and from who, expect to drop somewhere around $500-1000 bucks or easily more.  Unless you have crazy good connections and distribution, I wouldn't be doing press runs greater than 500.

Chris

Quote from: Kester PelagiusSo, don't pull the punches, how bad is the reality?

The reality, in my years running The Shadowrun Supplemental, is 1 in 100 readers bother to leave any sort of comment, 1 in 200 offer to do any sort of work for the magazine, and 1 in 1000 actually turn in useable material when they promise it. Those numbers could certainly be better with an absolutely on the ball editor who was willing to coddle writers and butter them up and make them feel wanted, but I always went for the more honest - while still trying to be helpful - approach. This probably

Best,
Adam

Given that it's a niche market you're looking at, I'm inclined to recommend an electronic publication. This increases audience and keeps cost down.  There's also a lot of good software out there to help you.

I ran my own very active online pub many moons ago, when content management was more a job description than a class of software. I can tell you that you need to have your writers already lined up, and don't expect useful material to be submitted by your readers. We usually had a small trickle of contributions, but only one who was actually useful in the course of three years.  I explicitly recruited all of the other writers, and even then they can be hard to keep and consistently get good material from.

So you're swimming upstream, but it's something that you can  do and succeed at.

QuoteSo, don't pull the punches, how bad is the reality?

Well, I can only talk from my experiences running Realms (see sig link) and a University RPG 'zine.

I've found that lots of people will volunteer content, but actually getting it is like getting blood from a stone. This is especially true if you can't really offer any kind of recompense (and who can really blame people for not wanting to do something for nothing?). On a more practical front, publicity takes time, as does building a reputation, and without those you're limited to using writers who you know.

Don't get me wrong, running a 'zine can be fun and rewarding, but it can be frustrating too.

-Matt

Greetings Bankuei,

Quote from: BankueiMost magazines proper make their money via advertising with is a function of how widespread they are.  'Zines are usually lucky to get a couple ads for $10-50 bucks, if that.  All in all, mostly they are priced just enough to fund the next issue.  

That's a depressing fact to know.

Quote from: BankueiHaving looked seriously into this, here are some ideas you may wish to consider-

Doing a journal, that comes out quarterly, or bi-annually, of more pages(as opposed to more often,  less pages), usually works out to better profits, plus it gives you more time to put things together.  People are willing to pay more for significantly sized digests as opposed to toss-away issues.

I must be the odd duck, 'cuz I tend to not care for journals.  Then again I don't really buy that many periodicals off the shelf, but the ones that I do get tend to be the ones that at least come out regularly and on time.

Of course most journal publications already tend to target niche markets, don't they. . . ?

Quote from: BankueiIf you decide to do either, understand exactly what you're looking for.  For me personally, getting feedback from readers to know that they are entertained or find my publications useful would be sufficient.  For you, the requirements may be different(money, expansion, expounding/promoting games, different ideas/theories, etc.)  Figure out what you want, then figure out what supports it.

Well I'd think a 'zine that provides a outlet for small (read: the shorter high concept ones) Indie games to be published, that carries reviews of games, and articles of interest to the gaming hobby at large would be nice.

But that's just me.  What would you like to see in a magazine?

Quote from: BankueiCommunity, community, community.  Regardless of electronic or paper, throw up a website, and a forum if you can.  'zines in all forms are held together only by community of loyal readers who identify with what you've got.

Your voice.  For small 'zines, be personal. Don't neuter out your personality as many do for large magazines.  People are paying for something they can't get elsewhere, and there's only one you.  Make use of it.

Interesting.  A voice, a focus. . . hmm.

Quote from: BankueiIf you go with paper, depending on what you're trying to print on, and from who, expect to drop somewhere around $500-1000 bucks or easily more.  Unless you have crazy good connections and distribution, I wouldn't be doing press runs greater than 500.

Sounds like I need to find investors!?

Or hit the lottery.  Hmm. . . yeah, a few mill should do it.  *Ha!*  ;)




Kind Regards,

Kester Pelagius

Greetings Adam,

Quote from: Adam

Quote from: Kester PelagiusSo, don't pull the punches, how bad is the reality?

The reality, in my years running The Shadowrun Supplemental, is 1 in 100 readers bother to leave any sort of comment, 1 in 200 offer to do any sort of work for the magazine, and 1 in 1000 actually turn in useable material when they promise it.

Was this a fanzine?

Did you offer any sort of payment?

Quote from: AdamThose numbers could certainly be better with an absolutely on the ball editor who was willing to coddle writers and butter them up and make them feel wanted, but I always went for the more honest - while still trying to be helpful - approach. This probably

Looks like the message was cut off mid-sentence?

"This Probably. ." what. . . ?  Is like trying to jump start a model-T in a thunderstorm with tweazers and a 9v battery?

Inquiring minds want to know.   :-)



Kind Regards,

Kester Pelagius

Greetings Clay,

Quote from: ClayGiven that it's a niche market you're looking at, I'm inclined to recommend an electronic publication. This increases audience and keeps cost down.  There's also a lot of good software out there to help you.

Which would you suggest?

Of those which are the most user friendly?

Which have the best features?

Quote from: ClayI ran my own very active online pub many moons ago, when content management was more a job description than a class of software. I can tell you that you need to have your writers already lined up, and don't expect useful material to be submitted by your readers. We usually had a small trickle of contributions, but only one who was actually useful in the course of three years.  I explicitly recruited all of the other writers, and even then they can be hard to keep and consistently get good material from.

Ah, yes.  Back in the ancient of days I used to publish a "Hint and Cheat File" chock full of game cheat codes and information.  I'd collect stuff from various sources, edit it together (it was a ASCii file, that long ago) ZIP it and put it up on my board and a few others.  I'd get the occasional e-mail from time to time asking questions or expressing interest in when the next issue was due, but rarely anyone wanting to contribute.  Which I always found odd.  I had similar problems with a couple FAQs I worked on back in the day, lots of input for ideas but little else, but that's neither here nor there.

Quote from: ClaySo you're swimming upstream, but it's something that you can  do and succeed at.

Ah, but how to get started?

That first step it always the hardest, but once taken you begin to walk.


Kind Regards,

Kester Pelagius

Greetings Matt,

Quote from: Matt

QuoteSo, don't pull the punches, how bad is the reality?

Well, I can only talk from my experiences running Realms (see sig link) and a University RPG 'zine.

I've found that lots of people will volunteer content, but actually getting it is like getting blood from a stone. This is especially true if you can't really offer any kind of recompense (and who can really blame people for not wanting to do something for nothing?). On a more practical front, publicity takes time, as does building a reputation, and without those you're limited to using writers who you know.

Good points.

So what sort of content would you want to see in a RPG 'zine?

Are there any specific areas that you think could be focused on that other 'zines don't currently cover?

What about a section covering nothing but reviews of LGS?


Kind Regards,

Kester Pelagius