Magic Items (Again)

[tauman]

As I was trying to fall to sleep last night, I got to thinking about magic items (swords in particular). One thing that seems to happen in many FRPGs is that magic weapons tend to add "meta-game" bonuses and effects. For example, looking at AD&D (forgive my indulgence), look at the +4 Defender that allows the user to put some of the bonus towards defense. Or a lifestealer that reduces the vicim's level. Now think about this, what do those effects "mean" in "real life"? That is, how would you explain the powers in reasonably concrete terms without game rules?

So my point is in TROS (well, other games too) I think it really fits the feel of the game much better if you absolutely don't do this. Instead, think of a power in "reality" (i.e. picture what the power would do if you had the weapon in real life), and then try to model that with game rules.

Example:
I'll do something like a sword of sharpness: The enchantment keeps the blade near razor-sharpness and toughens the metal so that it is effectively harder than steel, yet somewhat more resilient. These powers alone could drastically change how such a weapon could be used. Is it sharp enough to pierce metal? Probably not with a cut (depending on how "fantastic" you make the sharpness), but perhaps with a thrust. OTOH, you probably can't half-sword without thick gloves. If it's harder and more resilient than steel and very sharp, can it survive an edge-on-edge encounter with another (mundane) sword? If so, it might be advantageous for the user to use edge-parries, in hopes of breaking his opponent's blade. As Viggiani (a Bolognese master of the 1500s) advocated the edge parry with a mundane sidesword (stating that parrying your opponent's debole with your forte could break his blade), how would this work with the magic sword? What does this extra sharpness do to damage? How likely is a character to cut himself on his own blade? Putting all of these things into game terms (i.e. stats) is easy once the picture is set in your mind. Lastly, add a few spiritual attributes to the blade and you've got a unique item with a lot of flavor. No mere sword +x, this item will likely change how its user acts beyond just throwing a few more dice into the pool when in melee...

Sorry to ramble, but that's what happens when I'm bored at work.

Steve

[Emiricol]

I am awestruck.  This is a fascinating topic.  Coming from a D&D-style game perspective, many of these kinds of ideas are actually quite new to me.  They shouldn't be, but they just never came up in my groups before.

Thanks!

[tauman]

I came from a D&D (AD&D) perspective, too. I remember how the game felt in the beginning, but as I went on, so many rules felt like...well, rules. For example, what is a "level-drain" in real world experiences? A wight touches me and I "forget" or "lose" some of my skill with a sidesword or rapier?!?

So many rules seem to be meta-game rules--take a die roll and modify, without actually defining what that means. This is one of the areas where I feel TROS-style rulesets excel. Since TROS isn't as abstracted as many games, its magic items don't have to be so abstracted. Consider magic armor in D&D. How exactly does +2 [chain] mail benefit its user? Is is tougher and harder to cut through? (which is odd, since chain is extremely hard to "cut through" anyway) Is it lighter so that while you're protected, you're burdened with its weight? Or how about plate armor (i.e. harness)? It doesn't need to be stronger as few weapons will get through steel. In many ways, magic armor might only really benefit wearers if it is as protective but lighter than the mundane version (a.k.a Frodo's shirt of elven mail), or if it was more resistant to penetration and the wearer encounters an opponent with a magic weapon that could penetrate mundane armor. In this case you might get something like the fight Moorcock describes between Elric and Jagreen Lern (the Sorceror king of Pan Tang) where Stormbringer was unable to penetrate Jagreen Lern's magic armor.

Of course the "drawback" to this (if you look at it that way) is that magic items (esp. armor and weapons) can quickly get very powerful. OTOH, that has a sort of internal consistency, given the power of Sorcery.

BTW, speaking of meta-game magic items, can someone describe, in "real-world" terms Bracers of Defense? I mean, are those like wonder-woman's wrist bands or what? I can't imagine describing them in a TROS session with a straight face--perhaps they'd fit The Riddle of Spandex ;)

Steve (still at work, and still bored)

I am awestruck.  This is a fascinating topic.  Coming from a D&D-style game perspective, many of these kinds of ideas are actually quite new to me.  They shouldn't be, but they just never came up in my groups before.

Thanks!

[Emiricol]

Well, some sort of field that slows the incoming attack might be an idea.  Although when I think of that idea I can't help but think of the personal shields in Dune, mostly used for melee combat due to the tendency to explode when shot.

I'd go with a temporal distortion but off hand I can not think of why that wouldn't affect the baseline speed of the wearer, rather than slow down an incoming attack.

[kenjib]

BTW, speaking of meta-game magic items, can someone describe, in "real-world" terms Bracers of Defense? I mean, are those like wonder-woman's wrist bands or what? I can't imagine describing them in a TROS session with a straight face--perhaps they'd fit The Riddle of Spandex ;)

It's obviously a simulation of beefcake/cheesecake fantasy where everyone wears a loincloth/chainmail bikini, bracers, and sandals.  It makes total sense because men and women wear different things regarding loincloth/bikini so going this way would not be as efficient (requiring two such variants of the item rather than one) and sandals of defense just sound really stupid.  Thus the bracers.

Now what exactly is the protective nature of such an article of clothing?  Anyone wearing a loincloth/bikini, bracers, and sandals, is clearly an important character in the story.  This is a near-universal rule in fantasy.  The mooks always have other types of clothing on.  Only the heros and villains wear the skimpy "hot" clothing.  So, bracers of defense are clearly a narrative meta-tool to allow important characters to grab center-stage.

It is this tension between sim/nar styles of play that make bracers of defense so difficult to reconcile in the minds of gamers.  On the one hand, the reason for existance is sim but the effect in play is nar.  Thus, you end up with the classic drift scenario.  When the items first appears and is worn the game focus is simulation, but as the item gets used it's narrative focus quickly becomes dominant and the focus of the game shifts in an unexpected and potentially undesired way.

Because of this relationship, using bracers of defense in your game is just opening the door for an unsatisfactory gaming experience.  However, as TROS is a clear hybrid of sim and narrative gaming, bracers of defense might fit in better for TROS than a game like D&D, which is clearly and overtly gamist in orientation.  In fact, I would say it very closely resembles the relationship between the combat system and spiritual attributes and would compliment it nicely.  TROS is a rare game in that it is effective in such a hybrid category, and so I recommend that everyone take advantage of this rare combination and use bracers of defense in every TROS game.  You won't be able to use them satisfactorily in almost any other game!

[Uber_Munchkin]

Does anyone else remember the Dragon Magazine optional AC Rules for Female D&D Characters.  Basically naked was AC -20 and every additional item of clothing made your AC worse, I think a chainmail bikini was AC -6, a good comprismise. :)

[Muggins]

I remember there being a shield that floated beside you and automatically aligned itself with incoming blows in 3rd Ed. That struck me like a cool idea, as it allowed you to use a shield and a two-handed weapon.

But when you think about it, the shield would have to be under your mental control, or you would find shield and sword trying to occupy the same space! Lots of practice would probably be required to really use such an object.

Other stupid weapons include the vorpal sword, which always cuts off heads. Does it change the way you fight, or does a hit on the lower body simply cause the head to pop off?

James

[tauman]

The Vorpal sword is a typical example of a "meta-game magic item"--a magic item defined entirely by game mechanics (as if somehow, other swords never amputate limbs or heads). In TROS, I'd make it a more powerful example of my "Sword of Sharpness" conversion above.

Steve

I remember there being a shield that floated beside you and automatically aligned itself with incoming blows in 3rd Ed. That struck me like a cool idea, as it allowed you to use a shield and a two-handed weapon.

But when you think about it, the shield would have to be under your mental control, or you would find shield and sword trying to occupy the same space! Lots of practice would probably be required to really use such an object.

Other stupid weapons include the vorpal sword, which always cuts off heads. Does it change the way you fight, or does a hit on the lower body simply cause the head to pop off?

James

[Tash]

One idea I had for a "sword of sharpness" type of item was a sword that had the gift of minor accuracy attached to it.  The sword itself was magically enchanted to allow it to find, within a small degree of variance, the most lethal location to cut.  Thus in game terms it can raise or lower the result on your D6 location roll by 1, presumably hitting a mroe vulnerable place if one exists.

[Jake Norwood]

In TROS a vorpal-type sword could be pretty cool.

It modifies the d6-roll by up to 4 pts *if* that will make the target the neck, and then always does enough damage to remove the head from the shoulders. That way, if you wanted to just rain hell and death on everyone, you just swing at IV (downward diagonal), but otherwise it's a normal sword.

Jake

[Kcasar]

as far as the bracers of D, they projected a semi-solid force field around your body that moved with you, thus protecting from damage. In TROS it would prolly be an item charged with Movement, Summoning, and posible imprisonment(not sure, still getting ahold of the magic system) kinda like a charged version of the Armor of Air spell (p134).


More on topic: your ideas on magic weapons/item are fantastic. I've always been annoyed with magic items that can't be rationalized. I mean, sure you can explain a flaming sword (kinda, fire hurts more), but stuff like the Vorpal blade WERE a bit odd to me. Armor could be stronger, lighter, or have similar properties to the Armor of Air spell.

I think that magic items in TROS should be along the lines of Ars Magica; aka somethign you can explain with the spell creation system. Not that all items need to be "wands" charged with spells, but rather that items need to be "created" with the same rules that spells are created with (or somethign similar).

Finally: the addition of spiritual attributes in an item is really REALLY spiffy. that implies item intelligence, but doesn't have to be sentience. An Arrow of Orc Slaying could just be an arrow with a passion: hatred of orcs, or drive: slay orcs. Attribs like Destiny would be reserved for great artifacts, but passions, drive, possibly even luck could be applied to minor items with a specific purpose. Even Holy Avenger type items could have a faith score.

These ideas have inspired me to a whole new level of spiffyness! ;p