[Scarlet Wake] Playtest Release

[b_bankhead]

Man I am really jazzed by this game ,I really haven'nt done a detailed, point-by-point look. I've already decided I'm going to get some of the gang at the inde-netgaming channel and playtest this sucker as soon as possible. Some things about the game jump out at me:

1. No GM.  This is a major thing with me, I really believe that the need for a GM is a factor in the difficulty keeping groups together. Plus if you read lots of rpg.net you can see a surpising number of people whining about how they get pushed into the GM role. Scarlet Wake is an antidote to this, tired GMs can whip it out on nights they feel like playing and groups can play it if their regular GM is indisposed....

2. It's setting independent.  Really this game can be played in any world/setting, (It's essentially the same plot structure as the Count of Monte Cristo!),sword and sorcery, film noir,samurias, westerns, you name it you can run this game in it. That's what I love about games like Sorcerer,MLWM,Inspectres, they extract the core dramatic structure around which particular tales are told and base the game on that rather than worrying about the weight of a battle axe,or how much it's penetration compares to .38 special. When you do the production version you should include a numberof example character froma variety of settings.

3. Low setup.  Almost no setup, once the character and The List' are created  you have everything you need to know for the entire character's 'campaign' in one place, on a single sheet.  How neat is that? How many conventional rpgs can say that?

All of the above are features I think are important enough to mention directly in the cover blurbs and promotional materials.

Now one issue  do have is the use of 'funny' (non d6) dice. I think games aimed at breaking into the mainstream (and I think all indie games should be thinking like this) should place as few barriers to immediate play as possible, and making them go to a special shop to purchase special dice is just such a barrier. Yes I know you want to have a wider linear range but there are ways to emulate this . Also have you considered playing cards?

Glad to see you have a forum set up. Like the look. Listen to the playtests, tighten down the bolts on this sucker and roll it out as a for-money PDF, it looks like a winner to me!

[Drew Stevens]

No serious comments.  I'd just like to throw in another 'Oooh, shiny' voice, with the wistful desire that I could have eaten your brain and written this before you.

[Ben O'Neal]

Sorry for the delay in the finished product, I've got a website job that has a deadline tomorrow afternoon and pays too well to decline. Will finish this sucker asap though. grumble grumble, "damn real estates" grumble

No GM. This is a major thing with me, I really believe that the need for a GM is a factor in the difficulty keeping groups together. Plus if you read lots of rpg.net you can see a surpising number of people whining about how they get pushed into the GM role. Scarlet Wake is an antidote to this, tired GMs can whip it out on nights they feel like playing and groups can play it if their regular GM is indisposed....

I hear that. But it kinda does require a GM sorta. Actually, it requires GM roles, which are distributed amongst the players, and which change when a player's turn ends. So the roles are all there, they are just given out differently, and everyone can play, which is a huge bonus for me (I hate being the favourite GM in our group :) ).

It's setting independent.

DAMN YOU! Haha. That was what I was gonna be sticking in the back of the last chapter, in a section based on how this game can be applied to various different settings/genres. I was thinking it would work perfectly for movies like Kill Bill (duh), The Crow, The Count of Monte Cristo, and even The Princess Bride. Of course, you could also just go hog wild and give your characters X-Men powers or make them Angels or whatever. I'm thinking of allowing my character the ability to teleport in my first proper game simply because it would be awesome to narrate.

Low setup. Almost no setup, once the character and The List' are created you have everything you need to know for the entire character's 'campaign' in one place, on a single sheet. How neat is that? How many conventional rpgs can say that?

Hey yeah, I never thought of it like that!

All of the above are features I think are important enough to mention directly in the cover blurbs and promotional materials.

Good idea!

Now one issue do have is the use of 'funny' (non d6) dice. I think games aimed at breaking into the mainstream (and I think all indie games should be thinking like this) should place as few barriers to immediate play as possible, and making them go to a special shop to purchase special dice is just such a barrier. Yes I know you want to have a wider linear range but there are ways to emulate this . Also have you considered playing cards?

Well, originally I never even really gave a crap about the mainstream. However, I'm thinking that I may try to make two versions of this game, one using d6s or something, and seeing how that works out. This version d6 version could be the "mainstream" one. And no, I haven't considered playing cards, and I'm not really a fan of them, because they tend to become the focus of play themselves, as opposed to a mechanism of play. Also, I have very little experience with card games other than M:TG, poker, blackjack, cheat, speed, snap, uno, and spoons. So I wouldn't be the best person to create mechanics using cards.

Next time I post I'll hopefully have the thing completed.

-Ben

[Andrew Morris]

I finally got a chance to sit down and read through the rules. And let me say again, this game is excellent!

The only problem (at least for me) was the section on how to generate Peons for Bosses. The whole thing with the Peon modifier seemed a little murky to me.

Assuming I did understand it correctly, I'd actually suggest a minor rules change here, and instead of having Peon points buy different amounts of Peon levels for different level Bosses, I'd just up the Peon points at each Boss level. Saying that you have Peon points equal to 50 times the Peon modifier and that each Peon point buys a "rank" of a Peon might make it easier to conceptualize. This still allows you to generate the same Peons as the previous system, if you want, but it also adds a little flexibility.

For example, in the current system, as I understand it, The number 5 Boss can only have Rank 1 Peons and Rank 5 Peons. Using the system I suggest, the number 5 Boss could have, say, 25 Rank 5 Peons, or 125 Rank 2 Peons, or 100 Rank 2 Peons and 5 Rank 5 Peons, etc.

Or you could just reverse the order of The List, and make the number 1 Boss the easiest and the number 5 Boss the toughest. In addition to seeming more intuitive to me, this would eliminate the need for spelling out a special "Peon Modifier" -- you just say you get 50 Peon points for every Boss level.

I don't know if it's just me, or if the current method is confusing to others. But upon reading the system, using Peon points to purchase Peons was the only confusing mechanic I came across. Everything else was so silky smooth, that this stuck out to me like a sore thumb.

Does anyone else share that opinion, or disagree with it? Do the methods I suggest seem easier to understand, or not?

[Sydney Freedberg]

I'm thinking that I may try to make two versions of this game, one using d6s or something, and seeing how that works out. This version d6 version could be the "mainstream" one.

This way lies madness, I think. Providing two mechanics just means more hassle for you and more confusion for the intended audience ("wait -- did I download the right version?" or worse, "wait, there are TWO versions?"), which defeats the whole marketing to the mainstream thing.

I'd just suggest that higher abilities mean adding +1 to your die roll on a standard d6, as opposed to going up a die type. You lose a bit of variance in your outcomes (1d6+1 never rolls a 1 or an 8, whereas 1d8 does). But the main effect of that is to make higher-level characters harder for lower-level ones to touch, which isn't really relevant here as a horde of Peons is almost treated as one big multi-legged character.

[Andrew Morris]

One rule that seemed odd (not bad, mind you, just odd) to me was the naming convention stated in the rules (e.g. Violent Angel, Crimson Ghost). Is this a Kill Bill thing? I actually haven't seen either movie.

[Ben O'Neal]

No, Kill Bill uses names like "Copperhead" and "Black Mamba" and stuff, basically names of snakes, because they all belong to a group called the "Deadly Viper Assassination Squad" or something.

I just like the idea of forcing players to use cool names that sound like code names and sorta help to elevate the characters above the level of normal humans. Names like Violent Angel and Crimson Fiend just sound like names of people you don't wanna mess with. I dunno, it might also help to dehumanize the characters so that it's easier for the players to revel and enjoy the carnage and pain that they cause. Or maybe I just like the sound of those sorts of names. ;)

-Ben

P.S. If you do see the movies, I bet you would find a lot of things falling into place as to why they are there and how they work, especially the Binds, Dilemmas, and Fuel/Fire thing. I recommend the movies to anyone.

P.P.S. I am still thinking about the peon mechanics. It's really hard to explain my current system clearly, and even harder to come up with an alternative which allows what I want. I'll give you a proper reply when I find an answer.

[Trevis Martin]

The Deadly International Viper Assasination Squad...Or DIVAS (note that the assassins, with the excepton of Bill, are women.

Trevis

[Ben O'Neal]

The Deadly International Viper Assasination Squad...Or DIVAS (note that the assassins, with the excepton of Bill, are women.

Ah yeah, forgot the international part. I'm the sort of person who only watches a movie once. But you also forgot that guy, with the hat, can't remember his name. But he was part of the DIVAS too I'm pretty sure.

I'd just suggest that higher abilities mean adding +1 to your die roll on a standard d6, as opposed to going up a die type. You lose a bit of variance in your outcomes (1d6+1 never rolls a 1 or an 8, whereas 1d8 does). But the main effect of that is to make higher-level characters harder for lower-level ones to touch, which isn't really relevant here as a horde of Peons is almost treated as one big multi-legged character.

Yeah that's how I'd do it, but I've gotten comments from you and others saying that you hate multiple die types, and then I've gotten comments from other's saying that they love multiple die types, and I myself love multiple die types, so if I'm not going to make two versions (which you're right, would be really stupid), then I think I'll stick with it how it is. At least, until hundreds of people suggest I change it.

Mind you, when I'm satisfied with the results of the playtest I am considering actually selling this game in two packages, one which would come with 4 or 6 of all the die types you need to play the game, and maybe a T-Shirt or something with my game art on it, and another, cheaper package, which would be just the rulebook. I figure this allows people to choose not to get the full package if they and their friends already own all the different die they will need, and for people who don't, then it all comes in one package. It's just a thought for now though, but I'm liking the idea. Any thoughts?


But all that aside, my rulebook is nearly completed. I'm only missing most of the example in chapter 7, but everything else is there. I don't know if it's worth downloading the lastest version (which is uploaded and still at the same place) just to see all the rules, only to have to download it again to see the full example of play, but it's only a 780kb file.

The rulebook has also been updated to take care of all the things people have been pming me about, so they should all be taken care of now.

I've also updated the character sheet, and it should now work fine to print, and should also be of higher quality (and is now only 40kb), though I can't test that without a printer.

So all that is left for me to do is overcome this damn writer's block and figure out the example. Oh, and I will also be changing the Amber Ghost example in chapter 4, page 11, because of valid concerns about it being too creepy. But that will also have to wait till I can kickstart my creative centre and come up with some damn story already. Hopefully I won't have to wait too long. Oh yeah, and I have to clarify the Peon rules. Damn that's a hard one. Maybe if I just said it all really slowly, twice?

Once the rulebook is complete and nobody has any more problems with it as written, I'll begin the hard slog of "selling" this sucker around various other forums and junk. It's really daunting just thinking about it, because I'll have to face a whole nother load of people, who of course, being that they aren't forgites, will all be freaks. :)

I've also finally joined the indie-netgaming group and gotten myself an IRC program, so some of you may see me around those IRC rooms sometime and maybe we can have a game.

And just for the hell of it... SIGN UP AT MY FORUM!!! I need people! Mwahahaha.

Thanks,
-Ben

[Drew Stevens]

A quick thought on death-

You may want to include the possibility (as either an option for the player of a character, or something a Boss can spend Kick on) to actually kill a character if they fail to escape a Bind.

This may only be possible if the Boss is presently being hunted by more than one Hero, or is the last boss on someone's List.

It feels more true to genre, to me, if the Bad Guys can win, in the end.  It may be unlikely that someone as cool as you could do anything but escape the Bind- but sometimes, you kill Bill, and sometimes, Bill kills you.

This can also play to the competitive angle of the ACs- to make sure the final encounter is as Hard As Possible.

Well, I've just finished printing the playtest rules, and will probally organize a game of SW in the near future.  I'll let you know how it goes.

Oh my god... SW.  Scarlet Wake.  Star Wars.  Scarlet Wars.  A group of Rebels, out to take down the Empire's worst.  Quintin Lucus.  :)

[MarktheAnimator]

Hello,
I took just 3 seconds to look at the book and the artwork hit me in the face.

WOW!! What a cool looking book!

Don't worry about marketing it.  Just find a few people that love it and they will sell it.

Word of mouth is still the best type of marketing.

All you have to do is get a few people to try it and if they love it, they'll sell it.

You could always advertise on rpg.net that you will give it away for a week for free.  This will get people to start playing it.  It will grow from there.

Anyway, good luck with the game.

:)

[Ben O'Neal]

Hello,
I took just 3 seconds to look at the book and the artwork hit me in the face.

WOW!! What a cool looking book!

Thanks! Hopefully those 3 seconds convinced you to read the whole thing? :)

A quick thought on death-

You may want to include the possibility (as either an option for the player of a character, or something a Boss can spend Kick on) to actually kill a character if they fail to escape a Bind.

Well, at first I thought "No way. PC death is completely incongruous with the concept of the game", but then I thought of a cool way to implement it and make it kinda cool. How does this sound:

One of the ways you can spend Kick is to kill a PC. This costs 50 Kick, and can only be used when a PC has failed a Bind (so it will be rare anyway). However, when you kill a PC, the player remains in the game as an Antagonist, and recieves 40 Kick to add to any other PC. This means that if you kill a PC, the player of that PC will have a damn good chance of being able to kill your PC the next time you fail a bind.

Actually scrap that idea. Although it sounds cool to me, I can see it encouraging Antagonists to never spend Kick, and encouraging Protagonists to never allow their PCs to enter into Binds. These things suck. I want players to spend Kick and I want players to enter Binds without fear of PC death, only fear of having to figure out a way out of the Bind.

So I've come full circle. PC death? Nope. It works against the game.

It feels more true to genre, to me, if the Bad Guys can win, in the end. It may be unlikely that someone as cool as you could do anything but escape the Bind- but sometimes, you kill Bill, and sometimes, Bill kills you.

I'm definately not sure about this. I can't think of a single movie where the bad guys win. Or book.

But in a way, your PCs can die. All you need to do is retire them, and use a new character to hunt them down.

-Ben

[Mark D. Eddy]

Ben, that last idea is so cool it needs to go into the rules.

-Mark E.

[Tobias]

I'm definately not sure about this. I can't think of a single movie where the bad guys win. Or book.
-Ben

Ermmm... do you mean in-genre? Because otherwise, I've got a few for you...